How Do You Reconcile Paying for Your Child's College Education w/ Your Conservative Values?
In pretty much every one of the weekly free podcast there is the phrase “skin in the game”. It refers to the conservative belief in the power of ownership and the knowledge that there is no such thing as a free lunch. Anything worth having cost someone something, and the people most invested in caring for it are most likely the ones who spent actual time and effort creating it. How does that belief coexist with paying for a child's college education?
College is a child's first steps into adulthood. It is arguably the most important experience of that young adult's life. Why would we as conservatives not want our children to be personally invested as much as humanly possible in making the most out of that experience? I am not a father. My parents did not pay for my college tuition or housing. My wife and I are planning on starting a family soon and we are talking about this issue. I would be interested to hear what choices/experience the parents here made and whether or not they would do the same thing over again if given the chance.
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Comments:
Re: How Do You Reconcile Paying for Your Child's College Education w/ Your Conservative Values?
I've thought a lot about it myself. I put myself through college, working full time as I went to school full time. I did not have a very traditional college experience, obviously. Didn't go to parties, didn't get to do anything like write for the school paper or any other extra-curricular activity beyond my Phi Chi Theta work.
My husband's parents insisted on paying his way. He had, well, a lot of fun in school. From what I know about the relative benefits and downsides, I am thinking that somewhere in the vast middle ground is probably preferable.'
Of course, at the rate we're going, we're not sure how much we'll be able to help our kids in any case!
Aug '11
Re: How Do You Reconcile Paying for Your Child's College Education w/ Your Conservative Values?
Nyadnar17:
College is a child's first steps into adulthood. It is arguably the most important experience of that young adult's life. Why would we as conservatives not want our children to be personally invested as much as humanly possible in making the most out of that experience?
In recent years, I have started questioning this well-worn assumption. Rather than the first steps to adulthood, it seems to me that college has become an opportunity for teenagers to extend adolescence into their mid-to-late twenties.
I also wonder whether a liberal arts education today means any more than what a high school education meant, say, 40 years ago. My own children are still many years from college, but if they were graduating from high school this year, I would seriously counsel them to enter a trade school, finish quickly, and get into the job market.
I don't know that the social aspects of college are worth the cost. And while they make some fine memories, as the years go by, they seem less and less important.
Edited on October 24, 2011 at 4:15pmMay '10
Re: How Do You Reconcile Paying for Your Child's College Education w/ Your Conservative Values?
More like the last phase of childhood.
If the parents pay for it, then it is, almost by definition, still part of childhood.
May '10
Re: How Do You Reconcile Paying for Your Child's College Education w/ Your Conservative Values?
My parents paid for my college; my husband's paid for his. We're paying for our kids'.
I wish we didn't live in a society that delays adulthood so long, and drags out education so absurdly, but we do.
Mar '11
Re: How Do You Reconcile Paying for Your Child's College Education w/ Your Conservative Values?
People only value what they pay for, at least in some form.
Yes, a *real* liberal arts education is priceless - but found only when both the school and the student are interested in that outcome. Today, the vast majority are either on a pre-professional track that does not otherwise train the mind, or on a loosey-goosey BS liberal major that prepares one only for OWS rallies.
Dec '10
Re: How Do You Reconcile Paying for Your Child's College Education w/ Your Conservative Values?
I guess I am lucky that my oldest wants to be a Marine and the youngest is pretty enough to marry well. The oldest is bright enough to get whatever scholarships she will need, but I'm holding out hope for Annapolis. She is only 12 and is already looking into ROTC as a means to achieve her education goals. I would love to be of more help, but I know she will get more from the experience by achieving it on her own.
Oct '10
Re: How Do You Reconcile Paying for Your Child's College Education w/ Your Conservative Values?
My parents had none of the resources to pay my way through college. My wife's parents would not pay for the school she wanted to go to, a Bible college. Hence, what college we both got, and that is where we met and married, was on our own dime. For myself, I was 24 when I started college, but had already lived in 5 countries, done business in over 20 more, and had lived in 5 states. Linda had an extremely limited life because of childhood polio, and she was 19.
We neither tried, nor would we have been able to pay for our kid's college, and neither of them spent even a day on more education after high school graduation. For that we are actually grateful. Both are very close to us, even though our daughter lives halfway across the country. She is a pastor's wife with 5 kids and very involved in the health care world.
Our son is a master carpenter and builder, mostly a freelancer. Both share our outlook on life and are self sufficient.
From what I see of the quality of college grads around me, we have made the right choice.
Dec '10
Re: How Do You Reconcile Paying for Your Child's College Education w/ Your Conservative Values?
The original plan was that my parents were going to pay for my college, but that concept went out the window half way through my freshman year when my father's business went down the tubes. So I scratched and clawed my way through the rest - took a year off along the way to try to save up enough for the stretch run, etc. My wife's dowry included a $10,000 student loan debt that we paid off together.
With that perspective in mind, we've done everything we can to provide for our kids. My son chose to major in Theology and Educational Ministries, so that automatically meant private university. We're just about done with his - seminary will be on his dime. My daughter (a Sr in HS) is leaning towards a music/drama academy for a 2 year program, and we'll do what it takes to get her through.
It may be cognitive dissonance with my conservative values, but I feel no compunction whatsoever at providing this for my kids. As a matter of fact, it brings me significant satisfaction.
Aug '11
Re: How Do You Reconcile Paying for Your Child's College Education w/ Your Conservative Values?
This is more of a question pf pragmatism. I want to help my children, but I also want them to be practical. An Ivy League education is a very expensive luxury and one has to seriously consider its worth. My first two daughters showed little interest in my alma mater, Dartmouth, but did long for the Williams/Amherst kind of experience. Neither was accepted (phew!) and they attended a state University. Each received money (given for merit regardless of my ability to pay) and my expense was vastly reduced. I agreed to fund my oldest's Masters (no scholarships, unfortunately), while paying for my wife's mid-life Masters and a growing share of my middle daughter's undergraduate degree. Scholarships are unfortunately fixed, while in four years, undergraduate costs nearly doubled at the University of Arizona! My oldest is now covering her own tuition (PhD) and my middle daughter is applying to medical school. (I'm encouraging her to join the military (full-ride) if she is accepted.) I expect the last (still in HS) to go to Dartmouth so I can finally be broken.
Edited on October 24, 2011 at 9:18pmApr '11
Re: How Do You Reconcile Paying for Your Child's College Education w/ Your Conservative Values?
My folks paid for most of my (private, liberal arts) college education. Mr. Charlotte paid his own way and attended local, public, non-flagship state schools. I think both experiences provide advantages to the student/child (debt-free entry into "the real world" vs. lessons in self-sufficiency and frugality), and I am with Mollie that a middle-ground approach is probably beneficial. Perhaps you and your wife could offer to foot the bill for your children to attend a local public or commuity college (and maybe even live at home). If the kids decide they'd like to go out of state or private, you could contribute up to the amount you would have spent had they stayed local.
Dec '10
Re: How Do You Reconcile Paying for Your Child's College Education w/ Your Conservative Values?
Another question. I was a hard science major. Does it make any difference in your decision what major your child has chosen?
Mar '11
Re: How Do You Reconcile Paying for Your Child's College Education w/ Your Conservative Values?
My wife and I paid most of our college by working and student loans. We have a college savings account for our children. It will never pay for all of their college but will help.
To my way of thinking part of the American Dream is to make sure that your children are better off than you were. As such I have no problem trying to make things easier for my child to succeed. Family is a "Conservative Value"
May '11
Re: How Do You Reconcile Paying for Your Child's College Education w/ Your Conservative Values?
Nyadnar17, I think your second comment (#11) hints at the right answer here, one that reconciles the need to give your child an investment in his education and a realistic need to invest in your own "retirement" by assisting your children (who will one day support you). If you are able, you can offer to pay for a degree in certain fields and refuse to pay other less meaningful majors. I heard one commentator say he would not pay for any majors or classes that ended with the word "studies."
Oct '11
Re: How Do You Reconcile Paying for Your Child's College Education w/ Your Conservative Values?
My parents expected my brother, sister, and me to pay for part of our college, so half of our earnings from summer jobs, baby-sitting, and so forth went into the college fund. I joined Navy ROTC and got on scholarship for my last two years, which really helped. My husband paid for his bachelor's and master's with his GI Bill. We have footed the bill for our daughter's bachelor's at an out-of-state public university, and are wildly grateful to her for finishing in 3-1/2 years (this coming December). But we were lucky and could afford it; if that had not been the case, I certainly would have encouraged her to work to fund as much as possible, just to stay out of the student loan trap.
Dec '10
Re: How Do You Reconcile Paying for Your Child's College Education w/ Your Conservative Values?
My father insisted on paying my tuition and board for a private college. It was a source of pride for him to send his son to a private college. It was my responsibility to pay for books and incidentals. This forced me to work summers and part time during the school year. This was in the late '60s when the price of a private college was still within reason. Ironically, I learned about life working for the money I needed than as a political philosophy major.
For my two daughters, my wife and I made the decision to make them responsible for 1/4 of the cost. We did this for 2 reasons: first, as you say, you only appreciate something when you have skin the game; the second, with the cost of college in the stratosphere, we figured that one year's cost would be signficant but not overly burdensome. We also insisted that they major in a hard science - math, biology, chemistry, physics, engineering, etc. and maintain a B average. These majors show potential employers that you're a serious person with measurable skills regardless of whether you go into the field of your major.
May '10
Re: How Do You Reconcile Paying for Your Child's College Education w/ Your Conservative Values?
My daughter is a junior in high school. We have been fortunate; at her birth her paternal grandmother gave her one hundred shares of a decent stock, and my husband has managed her account well. There is enough money there for four years of whatever university she chooses, but she must choose a major that will make her eligible for gainful employment at a salary that justifies that university. She is smart and focused, your run-of-the-mill overachiever, and has no desire to move back home with us after college. Thank you God!
Mar '11
Re: How Do You Reconcile Paying for Your Child's College Education w/ Your Conservative Values?
Easy for me, since my boys are going to pay for their own education by working to earn the money. They will need to start with a junior college, but that isn't a bad thing. Maybe by the time they are ready to earn their BAs there will be a Hillsdale satellite near us that they may choose to attend. Or maybe they would be accepted to Hillsdale as it is. I would gladly contribute to their education in either case.
Nov '10
Re: How Do You Reconcile Paying for Your Child's College Education w/ Your Conservative Values?
The thing is, back a couple of generations ago it was theoretically possible for a person to work his or her way through a private liberal arts college. With the huge inflation of college tuition, made possible by the huge amount of student loan money available, it is no longer even close to possible for most people. Additionally, when my father went through college, scholarships were predominantly based on merit, so a person could work harder and hope to help pay for college regardless of his parents' financial situation. That was not the case when I went through college.
I have an employer benefit that will go a long way toward paying for my daughter's college tuition, so I don't really have to make hard choices about this. But I think it's otherwise a pretty tough dilemma that most parents are in, thanks in large part to the misguided "generosity" of the federal government.
Nov '10
Re: How Do You Reconcile Paying for Your Child's College Education w/ Your Conservative Values?
Let's throw utility into the argument. What are we getting for our money when we pay for our childrens' educations? I am glad to pay if I believe I am purchasing something valuable for my children. As such, I have agreed to pay for undergrad, provided a certain GPA standard is maintained and the curriculum includes a Classic Western Liberal education (we're on Ricochet.. so nice not to have to explain what that means). They may major in nursing, business, economics, or any other discipline that is reasonable (no women's studies, queer theory, or post-modern literature), but their basic education must include the classics and I would actually prefer they attend somewhere like Hillsdale or St. John's College to concentrate on just that.
If they leave college steeped in Western thought & knowledge of the progress of man in the Western Tradition, I will have spent several hundred thousand dollars wisely because it is a legacy they will pass on.
Grad school is on them. The basic premise: undergrad is meant to learn about their/our great Western Heritage and develop the ability to think critically. Grad or professional school is to learn a trade.
Nov '10
Re: How Do You Reconcile Paying for Your Child's College Education w/ Your Conservative Values?
My parents paid for my first four years in college, and it was a complete waste. I ended up skating through (barely) with a political science degree of absolutely no value.
A short tour in Vietnam completely turned me around. I went back to school on the GI bill, got a BA in mathematics in two years and then a PhD in math via a teaching fellowship - almost completely on my own.
A few years later my father confided in me that he wished I had gone into the Army right after HS. He didn't begrudge the expense (he was fairly well-off) but he felt that he had inadvertently encouraged my wasted youth. I agree. A stint in the school of hard knocks would have been a better start to adulthood.