Hope and Change Watch
Next time you hear a politician excoriate "Big Oil" over their "obscene" profits, vowing to get rid of this or that "subsidy," just remember the following: No less an oil company than Exxon clears a full two cents of profit on every gallon of gasoline it sells in the US, while state and federal government averages 48.1 cents on every gallon of gasoline that Exxon sells. That's right, sports fans, 48.1 cents taken in by the government despite the fact that the government didn't do any of the work. They just showed up like the Mafia afterward and demanded their take. The entity that did all the work gets to clear just two cents. And remember, every increase in the cost of doing business that the government levels at a business will be passed on to you the consumer.
Oh yes, and first time jobless claims jumped up by 25,000 last week, while GDP limped along at an anemic 1.8%. This, from the same folks who count the portion of your earnings that you get to keep as a government expenditure. We now return you to your regularly scheduled programing.
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Jun '10
Re: Hope and Change Watch
Companies like Exxon are also on something like an eight-year business cycle. If their profits are high today, it's because of what they were doing eight years ago. And if they don't keep investing that money, in eight more years they won't be around anymore.
Sep '10
Re: Hope and Change Watch
I certainly do not want to be seen as defending politicians, but I see no reason why taxpayers should be giving tax breaks to oil or any other industry. You might also want to consider that a small fraction of Exon's profits are derived from the sale of gasoline, thus when Exon says we only get 2 cents profit on each gallon of gasoline, what they are doing is avoiding talking about certain things they wish not to talk about. I note you are quick to listen to them. I can see you are not an independent trucker who is paying for his fuel. I seem to have read something about the US Navy keeping sea lanes open so that multi national oil companies like Exon can do their thing. " Mafia"- said like a true patriot.
Oct '10
Re: Hope and Change Watch
Help me out here. Corporate profits aren't just the cash they have before taxes, but after expenses and payroll, the profits include all the capital expenditures, like buildings, tankers, oil wells and even the geological surveying that goes into finding more oil. All of which are on some sort of depreciation schedule, therefore a major portion of the value is counted as profit, and depreciation schedules vary as to the capital asset so over the years the actual amount counted as profit is nearly impossible for anyone other than the accounting department to figure out. If the above is correct, than much of what is being taxed as profit is actually the very core of the functioning business, it's assets.
Isn't the real profit the dollars remaining that are distributed to the shareholders, plus the cash that is retained for future use? For instance, Exxon has almost 5 billion shares distributed among it's shareholders. Each share pays a dividend of $1.76 per year, so almost $9 billion was paid to shareholders who paid taxes on that money. Then you have multitudinous other expenses. In the end, does Exxon really make that much money??
Re: Hope and Change Watch
Raycon, correct. And the "subsidies" the administration wants to end are in fact deductions for depreciation, which is a normal deduction for other businesses. And Liberal Jim, what term would you use to describe someone who doesn't do any of the work, but still demands a larger share of the profit than those who do? Philanthropist? I think Mafia is a fair characterization. Meanwhile, I need to get back on the road and earn some more of Mr. Obama's money.
May '10
Re: Hope and Change Watch
"Next time you hear a politician excoriate "Big Oil" over their "obscene" profits..."
Since when are liberals opposed to obscenity?
May '10
Re: Hope and Change Watch
1.8% growth; I'll assume that's inflation-adjusted, or is it? These would seem to be plenty of ways for an administration to "hide the decline" had come up with just enough growth so that things don't seem horrible. I don't trust that figure at all.
Jul '10
Re: Hope and Change Watch
Thanks Dave. No need to worry about developing that low blood pressure with those kinds of morning summations.
Liberal Jim: Silly me, I thought the Navy kept the sea lanes open for all commerce. Didn't realize that they allowed only oil tankers through. I guess this Trader Joe stuff my wife drags home with Made in Boura-Boura stamped on it is all made in New Jersey. So, if we drill here, drill now, we can knock the Navy down to just shore patrol and not worry about never seeing those little drink umbrellas again? Who knew?
May '10
Re: Hope and Change Watch
In the end, does Exxon really make that much money??
I'm not sure of the answer, but does it really matter? A corp. is a legal fiction, so why does that matter?
May '10
Re: Hope and Change Watch
Other than 82,000 well paying jobs.
No, there's a whole line of polymers and other base chemicals. Exxon-Mobile chemicals were most likely used in the computer you're using this very moment. They are also one of the world's largest suppliers of natural gas that keep millions warm, cook their food and provide them with clean clothes and hot showers every day.
Perhaps you would prefer a lawless world? You would prefer a world without multinationals? A world of high prices and constant shortages? You would be the first to whine if the US Navy didn't do their job.
Feb '11
Re: Hope and Change Watch
I suspect many people think "depreciation" is some kind of tag dodge. Actually, what it represents is a *delayed* ability to deduct expenses that you have already incurred. For example, let's say you buy a new machine tool for $1 million and you are required by tax regulations to depreciate it rather than expense it. Then you are *not allowed* to show the $1 million check you have written as an expense: in effect, you are paying taxes on profit that you did not (in a cash sense) actually make. But in future years, you get to count *part* of the investment against that year's profits: let's say $100K/year for 10 years. Hence, you are paying the taxes before getting the cash.
What can be expensed vs what must be depreciated varies according to tax law, special temporary incentives, size of company, and phase of the moon...but requiring a business to depreciate an expenditure rather than expense it is not a favor to them, quite the contrary.
Oct '10
Re: Hope and Change Watch
Liberal Jim, I see no reason why corporations are paying taxes at all. The money they earn is money earned by individual owners who pay taxes. Corporate income tax is another example of how the government never met a dollar it wasn't trying to take from someone else. Dave is correct; if you end "tax breaks" or "subsidies" to Exxon, Exxon will charge more for its products and services to make up the difference. Congratulations, you just proposed raising the price of gas.
And yes, I do understand that coporations don't pass all of their profits on to owners. They actually use some of that money in ways that create jobs and economic activity. And again, of course, that's less effiicient than giving it to unions and community organizers. But sometimes you take the good with the bad.
Edited on Apr 29, 2011 at 6:38amSep '10
Re: Hope and Change Watch
Sisyphus: Thanks Dave. No need to worry about developing that low blood pressure with those kinds of morning summations.
Liberal Jim: Silly me, I thought the Navy kept the sea lanes open for all commerce. Didn't realize that they allowed only oil tankers through. I guess this Trader Joe stuff my wife drags home with Made in Boura-Boura stamped on it is all made in New Jersey. So, if we drill here, drill now, we can knock the Navy down to just shore patrol and not worry about never seeing those little drink umbrellas again? Who knew? · Apr 29 at 6:20am
The point is the "Mafia" serves no legitimate function. Perhaps you view the government as serving no ligitamate function , but most thinking people do not.
Sep '10
Re: Hope and Change Watch
I have read press releases for both Chevron and Exon saying they earn only x cents on each gallon of gasoline sold. I conclude from the releases the companies believe that earning a small amount on each gallon of gas will be viewed favorably by the public. The releases tell me nothing since the term "earn" is ambiguous at best. The term Carter chose is equally vague. The purposes of the releases are not to inform. I own Exon stock and look forwarded to their reports. What I am against is overly simplistic posts that leave the impression that oil companies are wearing the white hats and government the black.
Sep '10
Re: Hope and Change Watch
The 48.1 are made up of sales and excise tax and have no relationship to profit. They would remain the same if Exon earned 2 cents or $2 per gallon. I've seen similar blathering to yours on most news outlets. It is nothing more than overly simplistic nonsense. Your pseudo-argument would lead to the conclusion that all consumption taxes have the moral standing Mafia strong arm tactics. There are good arguments for maintaining depletion allowances. You chose not to put forth the effort to make them.
May '10
Re: Hope and Change Watch
Oh, it serves such a wonderful function of highlighting the utter depravity of the government lefties vilifying private business that serves a very valuable function such as powering our economy. Government, on the other hand, just sits there like Jaba the Hut demanding to be fed more and more of our filthy, hard-earned lucre all the while yelling out, "Wah tih chah taha!"
Oct '10
Re: Hope and Change Watch
Felicia, you tell that slimy piece of worm-ridden filth he'll get no such pleasure from us!
Sep '10
Re: Hope and Change Watch
FeliciaB
Oh, it serves such a wonderful function of highlighting the utter depravity of the government lefties vilifying private business that serves a very valuable function such as powering our economy. Government, on the other hand, just sits there like Jaba the Hut demanding to be fed more and more of our filthy, hard-earned lucre all the while yelling out, "Wah tih chah taha!" · Apr 29 at 12:47pm
Nice to hear you hold Washington, Jefferson, Lincoln, Reagan and others in such high regard. They were, if I recall correctly, a part of this sinister organization called "The Government" You illustrate why I dislike simplistic white/black analysis such as the post that stared this. Unless you are anarchists you favor some form of government. The questions then become how much and how to pay for it.
The problem is the SIEZE of the government. not debt, deficit or taxes which are only symptoms.
May '10
Re: Hope and Change Watch
liberal jim
FeliciaB
Oh, it serves such a wonderful function of highlighting the utter depravity of the government lefties vilifying private business that serves a very valuable function such as powering our economy. Government, on the other hand, just sits there like Jaba the Hut demanding to be fed more and more of our filthy, hard-earned lucre all the while yelling out, "Wah tih chah taha!" · Apr 29 at 12:47pm
Nice to hear you hold Washington, Jefferson, Lincoln, Reagan and others in such high regard. They were, if I recall correctly, a part of this sinister organization called "The Government" You illustrate why I dislike simplistic white/black analysis such as the post that stared this. Unless you are anarchists you favor some form of government. The questions then become how much and how to pay for it.
The problem is the SIEZE of the government. not debt, deficit or taxes which are only symptoms.
I am confident those luminaries you listed would also be as appalled as I am by the massive size and utter uselessness of our modern U.S. government.
Oct '10
Re: Hope and Change Watch
liberal jim
Nice to hear you hold Washington, Jefferson, Lincoln, Reagan and others in such high regard. They were, if I recall correctly, a part of this sinister organization called "The Government" You illustrate why I dislike simplistic white/black analysis such as the post that stared this. Unless you are anarchists you favor some form of government. The questions then become how much and how to pay for it.
The problem is the SIEZE of the government. not debt, deficit or taxes which are only symptoms. · Apr 29 at 1:22pm
Let me correct your spelling. "The problem is the SEIZE of the government. not debt or taxes, which are only symptoms." In spite of your ignorance about America's greatness and how economics operate, even left wing flunkies can get it right, even if it takes a lack of English spelling ability to get there.
Welcome aboard Ricochet. We're not your average uneducated ignoramuses. You have to work for it around here.
Jun '10
Re: Hope and Change Watch
Posted a response to Dave that goes longer than the 200 limit in the Member Feed.