Hey, is This Thing On?
Greetings, Ricochetoisie.
My name’s Bill Walsh and I’ve been brought in by the Berlinski junta as Minister of Information. I myself am not entirely clear what that entails. It could just be Claire wants more people on the official Ricochet Trivial Pursuit team. That said, she said that equipment would be arriving for my ministry, and sure enough, I found a giant crate on my doorstep. I figured, well, maybe laptops? Perhaps some iPads?
So, I got out the ol’ crowbar and opened the thing, and I now have 200 Kalashnikovs with Bulgarian stampings. I’m not entirely sure what this has to do with the gig, but doubtless Claire will tell me. And you don’t cross Claire, as y’all have doubtless learned at this point.
So, who am I? I’m a former consultant and sometime author, editor, and translator who’s currently picking up a doctorate. I like long walks on the beach and fuzzy bunnies. Also, I can juggle moderately well. So, clearly I’m qualified to serve drinks at Rob Long’s Malibu sea-side estate. (Though not at Peter Lawford’s beach house…that’s a whole other thing…)
So, here’s a question for everybody. I agree wholeheartedly with the Ricochetic mission of fostering civil conversation…but I think it‘s definitely swimming against the tide of contemporary discourse, which seems to be increasingly polarized and angry. Truism, right? Even on the right, the tone from (my friend) David Frum’s FrumForum folks is often “get thee behind me, Walmart Jesus People!” and conversely the conservative right sometimes erupts in “Anathema, RINO! Anathema!” My question to y’all is: why do you think it is? Do you think it’s a matter of the internetization of the conversation, with immediacy and anonymity encouraging fury and incivility? Or is it a matter of the ideologicalization of the parties, with two camps with mutually exclusive premises incapable of agreement and therefore devolving into shouting? Is it a result of the end of the left’s monopoly on the commanding heights of media, and their fury at dispossession and the bloodthirstiness of the torches-and-pitchfork wielding mobs who’ve pulled them down? Is it a function of the increasingly take-no-prisoners tone of politics, from the Clinton impeachment to the 2000 election, and so on? Or is there just something in the water at this point?
It could be one, some or all of those things—or something else entirely. What do you think? Any hope we’ll get past it? Or is it just the natural outgrowth of the rough-and-tumble of democratic politics in the age of the aggressive bureaucratic state, and the idea of getting back to a less-heated environment is Pollyanna-ish wishful thinking?
And does anyone need a Bulgarian AK in 5.56 NATO?
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Aug '10
Re: Hey, is This Thing On?
My question to y’all is: why do you think it is? Do you think it’s a matter of the internetization of the conversation, with immediacy and anonymity encouraging fury and incivility? Or is it a matter of the ideologicalization of the parties, with two camps with mutually exclusive premises incapable of agreement and therefore devolving into shouting? Is it a result of the end of the left’s monopoly on the commanding heights of media, and their fury at dispossession and the bloodthirstiness of the torches-and-pitchfork wielding mobs who’ve pulled them down? Is it a function of the increasingly take-no-prisoners tone of politics, from the Clinton impeachment to the 2000 election, and so on? Or is there just something in the water at this point?
Yes.
May '10
Re: Hey, is This Thing On?
Well thank God we have a houseboy. Got sick of pouring out my own scotches.
We are, at present, at a time of upheaval and dislocation. Bound to irritate. The Left had finally gotten their fondest wish, and now it's being rudely swiped from them, so they revert to petulance. On the Right, we're on the verge of achieving quite a lot of long-held dreams, so prioritzing carries conflict. I'd say it'll all work out, cause we're nicer, but then I would say that. There is a tendency to want to boot people out of the Big Tent, even though we all want roughly the same thing. That's the problem with a Big Tent. I find shutting my ears and humming works.
My FB trivial pursuit quiz about the House of Sirius Black isn't going so well, so be glad to join up.
Re: Hey, is This Thing On?
It's not just politics. It's sports, show business, finance. Read virtually any piece on any site and scroll down through the comments. They almost inevitably deteriorate into name-calling and vitriol of all sorts. My personal opinion is the empowerment of Internet anonymity brings out the worst in people. It's the same phenomenon that makes shouting monsters out of some normal people when they get behind a wheel or blend into a stadium crowd.
The answer is to destroy all technology. Short of that, I'm not sure what the answer is.
May '10
Re: Hey, is This Thing On?
All true, Pat. But I was the official conservative poster at Slate for quite some time, amid a nest of libs. It's always been bad, but it's gotten perceptibly worse lately. Because they invested so much in Obama, I think, and are completely irrational. Which is kind of revealing of people one excused as being "otherwise reasonable". So it's not entirely due to the intertubes, any more than it's due to hula hoops and dungarees.
But I don't see how to reverse it either.
May '10
Re: Hey, is This Thing On?
Great questions. Following Songwriter's lead, I'd say, "No."
Somehow, IMHO, politics has become a big team sport, with sides being selected on the basis of who gets to be in charge. The left doesn't want anybody telling them what to do -- not some average Joe or Jane, and certainly not based on some primitive constructs like religion and morality. The in-group likes the idea of a big, benevolent meritocracy, with the artsy, the fashionable, and the educated getting to call the shots for everyone else (the pusillanimous invalids of the Enlightenment). And enough of the out-group want to identify with the in-group that they happily throw their identities (and that of their forebears) under the bus.
The anger springs from these attacks on identity.
Edited on Sep 28, 2010 at 2:57pmMay '10
Re: Hey, is This Thing On?
There's less patience than usual among folks on the Right because the stakes are so high. A decade ago, Republicans were arguing among ourselves about good government versus bad government. Now we're arguing about applying the brakes or driving off a cliff. The general goal has gone from repair to salvation.
In regard to internet discussions in general, Pat's right. People generally don't treat strangers like friends (or even like annoying coworkers).
May '10
Re: Hey, is This Thing On?
It's a virus. And it is getting close to flu and cold season.
Jul '10
Re: Hey, is This Thing On?
Politics is always tribal, and in a democracy, everybody picks a tribe.
I'm not sure it's any worse than it has been in years past, I think it's just easier to hear. It's not just the anonymity of the internet, it's also that opinions that used to be limited to your weird Uncle Frank can now be put on the web in comments sections for all the world to see, and thus become part of the larger conversation.
Bill Walsh:
And does anyone need a Bulgarian AK in 5.56 NATO? ·
Yes.
Feb '10
Re: Hey, is This Thing On?
Welcome to the conversation, Bill Walsh!
I don't think technology is the source of the problem; it just exacerbates the problem.
The cause, according to one of my favorite theories, Generational Dynamics, is simply that we are in a generational Unraveling period. During these periods, civil society breaks down and becomes increasingly hostile and polarized. Conflict is preferred over compromise, and national unity becomes impossible.
According to the theory, the only solution is for a great crisis (think Second Great Depression, WWIII) to shock the entire generation into a new frame of thinking. When it becomes clear that "we must all hang together or we will all hang separately," then society will shift back toward civility, unity and a more common, shared view of the world.
This sounds very depressing, but the good part is that if a society survives such a crisis, the new generation builds the next great era in that society's history.
Edited on Sep 28, 2010 at 3:40pmMay '10
Re: Hey, is This Thing On?
The idea that civil political discourse ever existed is a myth. Remember, we used to have Congressmen physically assault each other on Capitol Hill. American politics has always been rough and tumble.
What we did have was a long period of time where there was little or no opposition. While they held the White House more often than not, Republicans were neutered in Congress. They got very good at surrendering to the Democrats. Why do you think Newt Gingrich and the Contract are still so hated? It revived the Republicans into a national Congressional Party.
We also had a period on near monolithic media coverage that favored the left. And that, too, is gone.
Now that they are challenged the left bears their teeth. And we bear ours. Life is good. Balance has been restored.
Edited on Sep 28, 2010 at 3:23pmJul '10
Re: Hey, is This Thing On?
Well, my opinion about Yer question referring to the comment sections is that the vast majority of the instigators are simply commenting, in a contradictory way, so as to get as many responses as possible. They enjoy seeing people respond to something stupid they have posted. It can be just simply juvenile behavior.
Sep '10
Re: Hey, is This Thing On?
To answer your last question: No. Nobody needs an AK in 5.56 NATO. The primary virtue of the AK is that its available in something other than 5.56 NATO. Now, if you've got something in 6.5 Grendal, or .50 cal Beowulf, or, hell, even in the pedestrian old 7.62 NATO, then maybe we can talk.
Jul '10
Re: Hey, is This Thing On?
Needed that link.
Jul '10
Re: Hey, is This Thing On?
Internet anonymity does fuel the vitriol and political differences have become nearly irreconcilable. Yet how does one explain the venom one finds on opera web-chats, particularly Wagner discussion groups where the stakes are, to put it mildly, utterly minimal? My only explanation is that the 60's Me Generation spawned selfish, self-absorbed children who did even worse for the next generation.
Feb '10
Re: Hey, is This Thing On?
Google is picking up on all this gun talk-- I'm getting nothing but firearm-related ads. :-)
Re: Hey, is This Thing On?
The Ottoman Umpire writes:
Could be. Hey, what bad could happen at the nexus of sports fandom and politics? Oh, this. Right…
Jul '10
Re: Hey, is This Thing On?
Bill Walsh: The Ottoman Umpire writes:
Could be. Hey, what bad could happen at the nexus of sports fandom and politics? Oh, this. Right… · Sep 28 at 5:50pm
Sounds like a winner to me. Heck, if the Blues & Greens start scrapping we don't need a Theodora, Justinian, or Belisarius, we can just sit back with some popcorn and enjoy.
Edited on Sep 28, 2010 at 6:00pmJul '10
Re: Hey, is This Thing On?
The darkness in man's heart has always been there. The internet just provides an outlet to expose it without consequence because of the perceived anonymity and lack of accountability.
May '10
Re: Hey, is This Thing On?
Bill Walsh: The Ottoman Umpire writes:
Could be. Hey, what bad could happen at the nexus of sports fandom and politics? Oh, this. Right… · Sep 28 at 5:50pm
I was sure you were going to link to the BCS.
Re: Hey, is This Thing On?
Aaron Miller says:
Whoa, I was just talking about riots where 30,000 people died, not a real atrocity.