Hey, What's the New Vogue in American Ethnic Stereotype Taboos?
You know, it's possible that I'm just out of touch with American stereotypes, because this comment genuinely has me puzzled. Keith Ellison is objecting to the King hearings on Islamic radicalization (no news, no surprise that). This is the part that took me aback:
Ellison said that while it's proper to investigate radicalization, he thinks it is wrong to single out a religious minority.
"If we're going to talk about gang violence, I don't think it's right to talk about, you know, only the Irish community and the Westies. I think we talk about gang violence. I think, if we're going to talk about organized crime, it's not right to just talk about the Russian community," Ellison said Sunday.
The Irish? Do they still have a reputation for gang violence? Isn't that kind of 1950s? Have the Russians really exceeded the Italian reputation for organized crime? I seriously can't figure out if he's just being coy or if we've really got new contenders. It's all too plausible that we should be forbidden from discussing the Russian relationship to organized crime, since they're actually behind most of it these days, aren't they?
Man, living abroad for a long time can leave you confused. I'm officially out of touch and apt to offend no matter where I go, now. I do at least know that if we talk about honor killings, it's not right only to talk about the Kurds.
I don't even know what Westies are.
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Re: Hey, What's the New Vogue in American Ethnic Stereotype Taboos?
Claire Berlinski, Ed.:
Have the Russians really exceeded the Italian reputation for organized crime?
The Italian reputation for organized crime was hollywood created and media sustained anyway. While I feel for the Russians, I'll be relieved if it isn't us anymore.
At least the wrongful protrayal as gangsters gave us credit for street smarts. Today the stereotype for Italians are folks too dumb to even be in the mafia: Joey from Friends, everyone on MTV's Jersey Shore (who by the way mostly aren't even Italians, but actors playing Italians).
Edited on Mar 7, 2011 at 8:13amOct '10
Re: Hey, What's the New Vogue in American Ethnic Stereotype Taboos?
Westies is probably one of those things like blood libel. Unless you are from a specific ethnic group or a certain neighborhood, you have no idea what it means to that group.
My guess is that it refers to the characters from West Side Story.
Edited on Mar 7, 2011 at 8:15amSep '10
Re: Hey, What's the New Vogue in American Ethnic Stereotype Taboos?
We have got to throw those radicalized Filipino Catholics who crashed planes into buildings while furiously praying the rosary in the same group with the muslims who did similar acts. Oh and that Seventh Day Adventist guy who shot people at an army fort while saying "The Rapture is Approaching",... he has got to be treated like Major Hassan who did the same.
What...?
There have been no Catholics flying our planes into buildings or Seventh Day Adventist shooting soldiers you say?
Nevermind, I get it...Rep. Ellison is just advocating for blind stupidity. Well I can understand that.
Jul '10
Re: Hey, What's the New Vogue in American Ethnic Stereotype Taboos?
Oh come on, Tommy. Italians and Sicilians are known in Cherry Hill, for good reason.
But yes, the Russians (at least in Brighton Beach) are reputable in their proclivity to be more organized than the government would like them to be.
As for Westies, you have been to Hell's Kitchen, no?
Re: Hey, What's the New Vogue in American Ethnic Stereotype Taboos?
Westies were a gang from Hell's Kitchen, NY.
Michael Pate: Westies is probably one of those things like blood libel. Unless you are from a specific ethnic group or a certain neighborhood, you have no idea what it means to that group.
My guess is that it refers to the characters from West Side Story. · Mar 7 at 8:14am
Edited on Mar 07 at 08:15 am
Nov '10
Re: Hey, What's the New Vogue in American Ethnic Stereotype Taboos?
Using my amazing ability with "The Google" this is what I learned about "The Westies":
The Westies were a predominantly Irish American organized crime association operating from the Hell's Kitchen area of Manhattan's West Side in New York City.
A pretty obscure reference, if you ask me :)
Re: Hey, What's the New Vogue in American Ethnic Stereotype Taboos?
Sicilians are Italian. That would be like saying "Americans and Virginians."
If Italians are known for organized crime in Cherry Hill, it isn't for "good reason." It's for terrible reason. Media driven false reason.
No stereotype has been obliterated, nor will it ever be. But the Italian stereotype is one of the few that will get you an Oscar or an Emmy if you use it, while most others will get you put in political correctness jail.
Edited on Mar 7, 2011 at 8:41amRe: Hey, What's the New Vogue in American Ethnic Stereotype Taboos?
New Code of Conduct rule: No one mentions the Westies, ever again. It is from here on in an official Ricochet taboo. In fact, from now on we only call them the [deleteds].
I plan to get really, really sensitive on the subject of this marginalized, stereotyped group. Now that I know who they are.
Re: Hey, What's the New Vogue in American Ethnic Stereotype Taboos?
Tommy De Seno
Sicilians are Italian. That would be like saying "Americans and Virginians."
If Italians are known for organized crime in Cherry Hill, it isn't for "good reason." It's for terrible reason. Media driven false reason.
No stereotype has been obliterated, nor will it ever. But the Italian stereotype is one of the few that will get you an Oscar or and Emmy if you use it, while most others will get you put in political correctness jail. · Mar 7 at 8:32am
Edited on Mar 07 at 08:33 am
At least people know who the Italians are, unlike the [deleteds], who have been so stereotyped and marginalized that we can't even figure out who they are without Google. Now that's marginalized.
Re: Hey, What's the New Vogue in American Ethnic Stereotype Taboos?
Claire Berlinski, Ed.
At least people know who the Italians are, unlike the [deleteds], who have been so stereotyped and marginalized that we can't even figure out who they are without Google. Now that's marginalized. · Mar 7 at 8:39am
The Westies aren't that obscure. I remember the movie "Sleepers" running into some trouble with another author who claimed the characters in Sleepers were based upon that gang.
Oct '10
Re: Hey, What's the New Vogue in American Ethnic Stereotype Taboos?
Until today, I only knew them as a breed of dog.
Jan '11
Re: Hey, What's the New Vogue in American Ethnic Stereotype Taboos?
Well, it's just like airport security. To be fair and balanced, let's start with investigating the Buddhists (ie, grandmothers from Iowa), and do an extensive analysis for that risk group, and work our way down the alphabet, ending with the letter "I" so it doesn't look like we have preconceptions.
Oct '10
Re: Hey, What's the New Vogue in American Ethnic Stereotype Taboos?
Ellison is from Minnesota, "the land where nothing is allowed". His main concern is crime among the concentrated Somalian emigres in Minneapolis. In Minnesota it is considered polite to talk around the the topic of interest; so look for that/whom which isn't mentioned for illumination. Pretty tough for an outsider...
Jul '10
Re: Hey, What's the New Vogue in American Ethnic Stereotype Taboos?
Tommy: let's not drive down the turnpike towards "The Mob as Media Creation." After that rest-stop, we shortly arrive at the Mario Cuomo argument, "actually, there's no such thing as the Mafia." Which is semantically correct. As my father said, "Yeah, Mario, it's just an out of control chapter of the Knights of Columbus."
As for Sicilians being Italians: here another terrible ethnic stereotype. When my grandfather, from Genoa, was told many decades ago that Sicilians were Italians, he replied, "Yes, just as much as Filipinos are Americans." (He was an anti-imperialist Democrat, so I think he was making a point about Italian history, there, as well as American policy.)
Arguably, Sicilians only became Italians after we all moved to America.
Re: Hey, What's the New Vogue in American Ethnic Stereotype Taboos?
Creation? No. Exponentially expanded resulting in a fictionalized stereotype that moves from movie and television screen to accepted pop culture fact? Absolutely.
I couldn't care less about it, either. That is until it ends up in the minds of jurors. Then it's harmful.
Sep '10
Re: Hey, What's the New Vogue in American Ethnic Stereotype Taboos?
Sicily was originally in and out of the Greek polis per Herodotus and Thucydides.
Re: Hey, What's the New Vogue in American Ethnic Stereotype Taboos?
And Louisiana once belonged to France.
Oct '10
Re: Hey, What's the New Vogue in American Ethnic Stereotype Taboos?
And what about the militant wing of the Salvation Army? Who knows what else they keep in those kettles.. strategically placed by busy shopping areas at the peak of shopping season.... yah, Congressman King, check 'em out.
Jul '10
Re: Hey, What's the New Vogue in American Ethnic Stereotype Taboos?
Tommy De Seno
Sicilians are Italian. That would be like saying "Americans and Virginians."
If Italians are known for organized crime in Cherry Hill, it isn't for "good reason." It's for terrible reason. Media driven false reason.
Edited on Mar 07 at 08:41 am
So the Gambinos didn't work in Cherry Hill?
I would say that saying Italians and Sicilians is not equivalent to "Americans" and "Virginians" now, but back in 1860 it was true. Hrm. What year was Italian Unification again? Cultures take a long time to adjust to such political upheavals; it was only 40 years earlier when the Sicilian Uprisings occurred.
May '10
Re: Hey, What's the New Vogue in American Ethnic Stereotype Taboos?
Is that a GL reference?
Maybe I'm blind to this rule, having grown up there. Could you elaborate?