Hey Farm Kid, Get Away From That Tractor!
I grew up in rural California and Colorado. That meant that many of my friends grew up on farms, orchards and ranches. They all worked hard and they were all the better for it. So of course the Obama Administration is proposing to ban family farm life:
A proposal from the Obama administration to prevent children from doing farm chores has drawn plenty of criticism from rural-district members of Congress. But now it’s attracting barbs from farm kids themselves.
The Department of Labor is poised to put the finishing touches on a rule that would apply child-labor laws to children working on family farms, prohibiting them from performing a list of jobs on their own families’ land.
Under the rules, children under 18 could no longer work “in the storing, marketing and transporting of farm product raw materials.”
Given the demise of the family farm as it is, I'm not entirely sure how many people this would hurt. Still, what a horrible reminder of the government's size and scope. It's not getting better, it's getting much worse. The regulatory state threatens us all.
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Jun '10
Re: Hey Farm Kid, Get Away From That Tractor!
I knew he did not want to be reelected. Now he is ticking off the rural vote.
Jul '11
Re: Hey Farm Kid, Get Away From That Tractor!
Good God. Life ain't nuthin but a funny funny riddle.
Jun '10
Re: Hey Farm Kid, Get Away From That Tractor!
I was driving tractors at ten and pickups at twelve, and yes I was "transporting farm product raw materials."
They'll have more success winning the war on drugs than this. Farms kids have always done this and will always do this, and no piece of legislation or administrative rule will change it.
It just makes you want to cry to think that some bozo in D.C. thinks he can remake an entire way of life.
Dec '10
Re: Hey Farm Kid, Get Away From That Tractor!
What about electricity. They used to execute people with that stuff and people allow it in their houses.
Aug '10
Re: Hey Farm Kid, Get Away From That Tractor!
If they aren't paid, then it's clearly forbidden by the Thirteenth Amendment.
Aug '10
Re: Hey Farm Kid, Get Away From That Tractor!
I think the argument would go like this:
Labour is defined as work of economic or financial value.
Farms are businesses. Therefore, farm chores are labour.
If unpaid, it's forced labour. If paid, it's child labour.
Homes are not businesses. Therefore housework and yardwork is not labour.
Another example: Community service requirements for high school students are not considered "forced labour", presumably because the student receives compensation in the form of a diploma, but could it be considered child labour if the work has economic value?
Apr '11
Re: Hey Farm Kid, Get Away From That Tractor!
That's an excellent point, Drew. Rarely enforced laws are a beautiful tool to harass people who have annoyed government officials. By practically never enforcing a law, the public learns that they can get away with violating it. Then when the need arises to punish someone, you can dust of the old law books and find something they are guilty of.
Sep '11
Re: Hey Farm Kid, Get Away From That Tractor!
I disagree.
This rule is being published by the Dept. of Labor, but will be enforced by the Dept. of Agriculture. The same people who are confiscating school lunches in North Carolina and raiding church suppers in Pennsylvania.
(Presumably this also means that the U.S. Dept of Ag-funded Tractor Safety program in 4-H goes bye-bye.)
Note how broadly this is written: this doesn't just mean that twelve-year-olds can't drive combines. It means you need to have an adult (presumably with a government-issued photo ID) to drive a lawn tractor pulling a manure spreader. Mucking stalls at a horse barn is one of the last remaining part-time jobs for teenagers--and the Dept. of Labor (and Ag) is wiping it out.
This isn't just stupid. This is we-went-out-and-hired-a-consultant stupid.
Sep '11
Re: Hey Farm Kid, Get Away From That Tractor!
That said....
While this is a picture-perfect example of bureaucratic stupidity, there's a wee kernel of sense in this proposal.
Farm machinery can be extremely dangerous.
Specifically, a lot of farm machinery depends upon what's called "power take-off" (PTO) hitch on the back of a tractor. That's a spinning shaft running from a point just below and behind the tractor driver's seat, back into/under the harvester/baler/spreader/backhoe or whatever other implement the driver is using. Those PTO hitches are dangerous--there have been lots of people injured, even killed, when pieces of clothing, scarves, coats, etc. get caught by the hitch.
While this rule is stupid, the Dept. of Labor can--legitimately--make the argument that working around a PTO hitch is statistically a lot more dangerous than other work environments where children are not allowed (for example, a machine shop).
This stupidity isn't insidious, malevolent government stupidity. It's more a case of limp-wristed, hand-waving "for the children!" stupidity.
May '10
Re: Hey Farm Kid, Get Away From That Tractor!
John Murdoch beat me to it: I was going to point out that the infinitely benevolent and beneficient administrative state, ever mindful of the dangers our precious children face, is simply trying to protect them from all that dangerous farm equipment! Perhaps the other less-mentioned concern is that such injuries are expensive to treat, and whenever the feds end up providing a service, they start trying to eliminate demand for said services through rationing and corrosive regulation.
Dec '10
Re: Hey Farm Kid, Get Away From That Tractor!
Nah. They just want to cover all the bases on the Constitution's "Commerce Clause." They want to make sure they know how many three-year old farm girls are collecting the eggs in the hen house every day and then 'transporting' the 'farm product raw materials' to Granny and Grandpa's breakfast table, in the event that G&G might live (horrors!) just down the road, but actually across a State line . . . can you spell RICO (chet)?
Edited on April 25, 2012 at 8:10pmAug '11
Re: Hey Farm Kid, Get Away From That Tractor!
So how many felonies a day are we up to now? Gotta be five or six.
Apr '12
Re: Hey Farm Kid, Get Away From That Tractor!
Misthiocracy
Homes are not businesses. Therefore housework and yardwork is not labour.
To really flog the equine, what about people who work from home? If Timmy has to wrangle the Spot Bot to clean up cat gak in the kitchen while Mommy attends a telecon, is that child labor since it's done in a facility (aka a home) which houses a business (home office)? Or would it only be an issue if he's tasked with dusting off her desk?
In reality, I just want to figure out a way to sue my mother for making me dust her entire milk glass collection every week...
Aug '10
Re: Hey Farm Kid, Get Away From That Tractor!
Did she threaten serious physical harm or serious financial harm if you didn't dust the milk glass collection?
Aug '10
Re: Hey Farm Kid, Get Away From That Tractor!
RetroGeek
To really flog the equine, what about people who work from home? If Timmy has to wrangle the Spot Bot to clean up cat gak in the kitchen while Mommy attends a telecon, is that child labor since it's done in a facility (aka a home) which houses a business (home office)? Or would it only be an issue if he's tasked with dusting off her desk?
The theoretical rules in our absurdist drama would probably be similar to how the IRS segregates home-business expenses from household expenses.
Apr '12
Re: Hey Farm Kid, Get Away From That Tractor!
Misthiocracy
The theoretical rules in our absurdist drama would probably be similar to how the IRS segregates home-business expenses from household expenses. · 25 minutes ago
I nearly commented along those lines, actually. I had the "convenience" of working from home for several years. We looked at the amount of paperwork and hassle it would take to actually get the tax break and determined it just wasn't worth it.
Apr '12
Re: Hey Farm Kid, Get Away From That Tractor!
Misthiocracy
Did she threaten serious physical harm or serious financial harm if you didn't dust the milk glass collection? · 37 minutes ago
Misthiocracy, if she hadn't threatened serious something, the milk glass would've needed an archaeologist before I touched it. And she wonders why I don't have knick-knacks in my own house?
Feb '12
Re: Hey Farm Kid, Get Away From That Tractor!
Crab bait: This is a tempest in a teapot. There's no way to enforce this rule. Farm kids are safe from the DOL.
DrewInWisconsin: These aren't the sort of laws that are put on the books with the expectation that they will be rigorously and uniformly enforced. They're put on the books so that officials will have legal cover when they need to harass specific individuals.
Just as there was no way to stop Roscoe Filburn from growing wheat for local consumption in 1941? We are several generations past the time when one might hide from federal enforcement. To paraphrase Longfellow:
Aug '11
Re: Hey Farm Kid, Get Away From That Tractor!
Oh, I'm not saying there isn't a way to enforce this, or that we shouldn't push back HARD against this over-reach. I'm just suggesting that it will be randomly enforced and that it will be a perfect tool for abusing people.
Apr '11
Re: Hey Farm Kid, Get Away From That Tractor!
While I am sure John and Richard are right about the motivations around these regulations, it is painfully easy to see the consequences. Small business (family farms) now have compliance costs which will put them at a disadvantage against big business. We will see more consolidation as even deferential enforcement will have a negative effect. Eventually we'll have nothing but large players. It is amazing how that the Democrats can still claim they are "for the little guy."