Hey, David Limbaugh, You Want a Piece Of Me?
During the latest edition of "Kaus and Limbaugh," David Limbaugh took a shot at--well, at whom would you suppose? Barack Obama? Harry Reid? Not at all. David took a shot at little moi. I was so startled I nearly fell off my elliptical trainer.
In a post a couple of days ago, I said, essentially, that Republicans would be crazy to risk a government shut-down. They'd find themselves in about the same position in which Newt Gingrich and the new House GOP majority found themselves in 1995: taking all the blame. When you're up against the President of the United States and the mainstream media, I argued, you lose. And balancing the budget right now, this very year, when the Democrats still control the White House and the Senate is a) impossible, and, b) beside the point. The point is to place Republicans in position to defeat Obama and recapture the Senate in 2012.
David's counter-argument? I wouldn't want to put words into his mouth, exactly, but basically David said I'm lily-livered. The country's in trouble, we need dramatic action, and I've underestimated the
extent to which the American people understand this.
Okay, David, baby, let's mix it up a little.
This very month, there will come three moments when Republicans could make a stand--and two during which they could plausibly shut down the government.
1. Voting on the continuing resolution to fund the government through the rest of this fiscal year. My view: Even if the GOP got everything for which it's asking, that would still amount to only $61 billion in cuts. Chump change. Don't for goodness's sake risk a cataclysmic fight over that.
David?
2. Voting to raise the debt ceiling. Here's the way Sen. Marco Rubio put it in his column the other day in the Wall Street Journal. He would refuse to vote for raising the debt ceiling, he insisted
unless it is the last one we ever authorize and is accompanied by a plan for fundamental tax reform, an overhaul of our regulatory structure, a cut to discretionary spending, a balanced-budget amendment, and reforms to save Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid.
My view: Fine. That's just the right way for the Republicans to position themselves before going into the negotiations. But in the GOP's inner-most councils, everybody should recognize that it's just that: staking out a position. Don't actually do it. Don't shut down the government. We want Americans to look at the GOP next year as a part of calm, sane, forthright accomplishment, not as latter-day Samsons, willing to knock down the entire edifice as long as they get to show off their strength.
Note, by the way, that our own Lauren Fink, married, God bless her, to a Marine, got a little nervous about this the other day, saying that down in Quantico the Marine families had all already been briefed about the disruptions in their lives that a government shutdown might cause. Ricochet member Casey, himself a military man, posted a reassuring reply, noting that our men and women in uniform would indeed continue to get paid. But just think about that for a moment, David. All who serve in uniform, and their dependents--which is to say, several million people--have already found themselves unnerved. That's just the merest foreshadowing of what would happen if the government actually closed.
Anyway, David, where are you on this one?
3. The GOP's proposed budget for fiscal year 2012. Rep. Paul Ryan, chairman of the House Budget Committee and my new hero (smart, charming, funny, and fearless--that's Ryan), will be introducing this sometime during the next three weeks. This budget will be serious. It will take on entitlements. It will encompass both deep cuts and basic, far-reaching reforms. The debate over this budget won't involve the risk (or, as I suppose you might put it, the opportunity) to shut down the government, but all the same it represents the right place to stand and fight. The budget for 2012--this is where the GOP can draw the sharp distinctions between itself and Obama. This is where it can demonstrate real seriousness. This is the vehicle that can most effectively offer the American people a real choice when they cast their ballots next year.
Three hills. I say we make our stand on the third.
David?
- Comment (53)
- · Quote
- · UnfollowFollow (6)
Comments :
Nov '10
Re: Hey, David Limbaugh, You Want a Piece Of Me?
If the Senators and Congressman who claim to be Republicans aren’t going to use the Republican Party, could the Tea Party borrow it for a while?
Jul '10
Re: Hey, David Limbaugh, You Want a Piece Of Me?
It just breaks a mother's heart to see you children quarrel like this...
Re: Hey, David Limbaugh, You Want a Piece Of Me?
But, Mom, David started it!
Edited on Apr 1, 2011 at 10:12amJul '10
Re: Hey, David Limbaugh, You Want a Piece Of Me?
Don't make Me pull the internet over....
Re: Hey, David Limbaugh, You Want a Piece Of Me?
Join us in two weeks for the next edition of Kaus/Limbaugh/Robinson.
Mar '11
Re: Hey, David Limbaugh, You Want a Piece Of Me?
It is clear that the problem is not one of goals, it is of methodology. I do not know how men become leaders in a place like the House or the Senate, but a true leader knows how to cause men (and women) to follow them to whichever hill they choose to defend. We need to keep the patriots in the tea party and every other person with fiscal sanity to understand that fighting over the plan is not the same as fighting over the goal and you both agree clearly what the goal is. The time for the plan is now and we must go with the leaders we have, let them lead and reassess at election time. Get the job done as best as possible, talk about how the cuts are demonstrative rather than substantive and get to discussing the 2012 budget.
May '10
Re: Hey, David Limbaugh, You Want a Piece Of Me?
I agree w/David and disagree w/Peter and his brethren like Boehner. This is the hill we have to fight on and declare at the begining that they are willing to shut it down. Not do as Boehner did and play his Ace card at the begining of the game. If the case is made with strong articulate language explaining why the Repubs wish to make the radical cuts to the budget and why, such as the Dems are practicing in Radical Spending for their special interest groups like Public Sector Unions because it begets Dems campain funds. Remember Marco Rubio also said he will no longer vote for CRs that don't include defunding of obamacare language and is not going to continue to vote for 3 week long CRs.
To be continued...
Re: Hey, David Limbaugh, You Want a Piece Of Me?
Beautifully stated, DocStu, and let me claim your remarks as support for my position before David gets the chance to claim them as support for his.
And welcome to Ricochet!
May '10
Re: Hey, David Limbaugh, You Want a Piece Of Me?
The Repubs need to grow a pair. The leadership needs to be removed. I don't trust Cantor, he is as swarmy as they come. They need to pick a hill, make their stand, and fight till the last one is standing. We sent these guys to DC to Cut, Cut, Cut, shore up the military, protect our borders and get Gov't out of our lives.
They won and they act like a bunch of whipped dogs. Act like you won damn it. Act like you understand why you were sent there. Act like you understand that this is your last chance at redemption. If the leadership fails us here, the minute the TEA Party declares a leader and says we are going to run Candidates and act like we are the other Party and pushes the Republican Party to the back of the line, I am in. I've had it. Do the Dems act this way when they loose? No they act like they won.
RR said the Democratic Party left him...I hope I don't have to declare the Republican Party left me!
May '10
Re: Hey, David Limbaugh, You Want a Piece Of Me?
I couldn't disagree with this more. I don't believe that leadership and the people who gave them that Leadership have the same goals. I believe leadership goals are to get along and don't make anyone mad at them. Voters' goals are to gut the budget and regain liberties lost.
There isn't a fight over the plan,leadership has no plan. Tea Party says fight and they say weelllll maybe.
I happen to think it's not too late to find new Leadership and take the fight to them. King(IA), Bachmann(MN), King(NY), West(FL)
Mar '11
Re: Hey, David Limbaugh, You Want a Piece Of Me?
Peter, your plan is fine as long as everything falls into place just as you have outlined. The problem is that Republicans have a history of caving and the conservative electorate has zero confidence that they won't cave again. The best way to predict future behavior is to observe past patterns. Your friends on Capitol Hill, those who have been there for a while, have done little to inspire confidence in their future behavior.
If our representatives stand, fight, and lose, we still have 2012 along with the confidence that they mean what they say. If they concede the first two hills the conservative electorate will see each hill as more of the same, which is fertile soil for a third party.
We really are that frustrated.
Re: Hey, David Limbaugh, You Want a Piece Of Me?
This is not fair. I am with my daughter at college orientation but have read Peter's challenge. (as we speak I'm supposed to be paying better attention to the faculty speaker but she'll just have to accept the multitasking -- uh oh my ears just perked up: she mentioned date rape!). At any rate I have read Professor Robinson's post and do have responses. I doubt they'll be satisfactory to him or others disinclined to a shutdown but I'll give it a shot anyway when I get home. I will just point out that Peter answers his own objection to number 2. It's a straw man, unless we're talking solely public perception. As I said in the podcast military and other essential services won't be shut down. More later. In the meantime back to date rape
May '10
Re: Hey, David Limbaugh, You Want a Piece Of Me?
Gus Marvinson: Peter, your plan is fine as long as everything falls into place just as you have outlined. The problem is that Republicans have a history of caving and the conservative electorate has zero confidence that they won't cave again.
If our representatives stand, fight, and lose, we still have 2012 along with the confidence that they mean what they say. If they concede the first two hills the conservative electorate will see each hill as more of the same, which is fertile soil for a third party.
We really are that frustrated. · Apr 1 at 10:34am
Here Here...Stand and fight. Don't tuck your tail and be happy with what you get, John Boehner. Stop worring about what will be said about you because no matter what you do they will say it anyway. Lead and fight or go back to Ohio. You were voted for to fight note concede.
Jul '10
Re: Hey, David Limbaugh, You Want a Piece Of Me?
I love the idea of a Federal government shut-down for, say, 20 years or so.
Politically, however, I'm cognizant of the fact that the percentage of people who suckle at the teat of the welfare state is considerably higher than it was in 1995 - a time of economic boom. Shutting down the government now is likely to galvanize the mooching class in much the same way that Barack Obama and the 111th Congress mobilized the Tea Party.
Jul '10
Re: Hey, David Limbaugh, You Want a Piece Of Me?
David, I just have to ask: which college? It would seem to me that a young lady with the last name Limbaugh would be instantly rejected by any college other than Hillsdale, Grove City or the Institute for Automobile Mechanics.
As for date rape, not to worry - today's crop of metrosexual college males are too busy playing video games.
Nov '10
Re: Hey, David Limbaugh, You Want a Piece Of Me?
Doesn't Marco Rubio's stand on the debt ceiling do essentially all we are looking for?
It's a simple concept that Mr. & Mrs. Joe Sixpack can absorb. It doesn't take to much to say that, until we get our house in order, we will not take on new debt. Most of them would not qualify for new debt so it is not a mental leap. They know what they need to do personally so the extrapolation to the federal government will be a no-brainer.
Further, they are seeing at the state level that states that have a balanced budget article in their respective state constitutions are being forced to deal with the problem. A federal BBA would help but no short term hope for that so the debt ceiling is the hill on which we should stand.
Jun '10
Re: Hey, David Limbaugh, You Want a Piece Of Me?
Peter - Your plan is more clearly articulated in this posting than in your previous post and to some degree I would have to admit that it is sensible. However, what is missing, something that I touched on in my previous responses on your first posting, is the message getting lost in the sausage making of coming to terms with what must be done to bring down the debt and reform Social Security and Medicare.
It is one thing to roll up sleeves and arm wrestle Democrats on each aspect of the Ryan budget plan but it is quite another to articulate to the American people as often as is humanly possible why it is that we are doing so - because a failure to do so risks making the Tea Party movement feel disillusioned, dispirited and then disengage from the fight...that indeed risks the 2012 Presidential election and I still contend that Obama could concede to many of Ryan's proposals and thereby position himself as a fiscal pragmatist thus assuring his re-election and the return of too many Democrats to the House and especially the Senate.
Looking forward to David's response. Cheers.
May '10
Re: Hey, David Limbaugh, You Want a Piece Of Me?
Kenneth, Republicans are going to campaign on cutting government. The mooching class isn't going to like that regardless of whether or not there's a shutdown now.
The voters most likely to switch because of a government shutdown are government employees. I have no idea how many consider themselves conservative / Republican. But people tend to vote selfishly, so a postal worker whose pay is affected might switch sides.
Exactly right. Yes, Republicans will lose voters if there's a shutdown, but they'll also lose voters if they fail to inspire confidence that the GOP has changed. The critical consideration is whether or not the GOP needs a shutdown to appear serious about cuts before 2012. I'm not sure.
Republicans have demonstrated weakness (ex: starting negotiations with compromise). They can't make significant cuts yet, but they can stop the spending.
Much more financial damage can be done before 2012.
Jun '10
Re: Hey, David Limbaugh, You Want a Piece Of Me?
Old politicians in suits (nothing against suits) probably don't approve of bloody bar fights on the floor of Congress, but Americans (including most Republicans) love a good passionate bar fight now and then. It would provide some rare evidence that politicians are human beings. And, no better time for it.
Mar '11
Re: Hey, David Limbaugh, You Want a Piece Of Me?
Thunderdome! Two will enter! One will leave!