Herman Cain: National Sales Tax Is the "Worst Idea on the Table"
Herman Cain's thinking on tax reform has evolved significantly over the past eleven months. Less than a year ago, Cain penned an op-ed in the Daily Caller in which he decried the idea of a national sales tax imposed in conjunction with other federal taxes as being the "worst idea on the table" for a myriad of reasons.
In every country that has established a VAT with the promise of reducing its national debt, the VAT has eventually gone up or expanded on top of the existing tax structure. After discovering many of the tax grenades in the recently passed health care deform bill, which is already driving costs up and access down, it would be real easy for an overzealous bureaucrat to insert the language in the legislation “national retail and wholesale” tax.
For the liberal naysayers who say that would not happen, you lose! Just look at the Social Security system, Medicare and Medicaid. Over the years since their inception, taxes have gone up, benefits have gone down and they are still on a path of insolvency....
Giving the administration and Congress another tool to tax us and confuse us is like giving an alcoholic a key to the liquor store with no supervision, only to discover that he locks the door after he is safely inside.
A national retail sales tax on top of all the confusing and unfair taxes we have today is insane! It gives the out-of-control bureaucrats and politicians in denial one more tool to lie, deceive, manipulate and destroy this country. (Emphasis added)
The criticism and anxieties that Herman Cain himself had about the idea of a national sales tax as recently as last November are the same that skeptics of his 9-9-9 plan have been raising for weeks. And it's distressing that whenever these concerns are raised, Candidate Cain dismisses them and deflects the conversation.
Also worthy of mention is the fact that Cain was a proponent of the Fair Tax, a plan intended to completely replace the federal tax structure with a single VAT or national consumption tax of 23%, before he switched his support to his 9-9-9 plan. I'd be keen on hearing Cain explain the dramatic transformation of his thinking on this issue that occurred over such a short span of time.
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May '10
Re: Herman Cain: National Sales Tax Is the "Worst Idea on the Table"
Hmm, that's not so good.
I think it stems from his best pal in talk radio, Neal Boortz, a libertarian and fervent advocate of the Fair Tax. 9-9-9 is an incremental introduction to that goal. Cain pinpoints the main problem with it, that it will be abused in future. But the same can be said of any tax scheme. Congress cannot tie the hands of future Congresses.
I'm mainly insulted that he disapproves of handing an alcoholic the keys to the liquor store. Sounds swell to me.
Re: Herman Cain: National Sales Tax Is the "Worst Idea on the Table"
Kennedy Smith: Hmm, that's not so good.
I think it stems from his best pal in talk radio, Neal Boortz, a libertarian and fervent advocate of the Fair Tax. 9-9-9 is an incremental introduction to that goal. Cain pinpoints the main problem with it, that it will be abused in future. But the same can be said of any tax scheme. Congress cannot tie the hands of future Congresses.
I'm mainly insulted that he disapproves of handing an alcoholic the keys to the liquor store. Sounds swell to me. · Oct 18 at 10:57am
Has he articulated the idea that you present above, that 9-9-9 is an "incremental introduction" or step toward the Fair Tax? I haven't heard it, but I'd be interested to know if he has indeed explained this.
Aug '11
Re: Herman Cain: National Sales Tax Is the "Worst Idea on the Table"
Sounds as though Cain, like many others, is confused by the distinction between a VAT and a sales tax.
VAT is a witch's brew. A national sales tax is much more transparent. And as I've often said, I'd rather be taxed on consumption than on income anytime.
Aug '11
Re: Herman Cain: National Sales Tax Is the "Worst Idea on the Table"
Diane Ellis, Ed.
Has he articulated the idea that you present above, that 9-9-9 is an "incremental introduction" or step toward the Fair Tax? I haven't heard it, but I'd be interested to know if he has indeed explained this. · Oct 18 at 10:59am
The explanation is on his website, but it's pretty garbled.
Dec '10
Re: Herman Cain: National Sales Tax Is the "Worst Idea on the Table"
Stuff like this is always a bad idea, when it's someone else's idea. He should at least acknowledge valid criticisms to his plan.
Re: Herman Cain: National Sales Tax Is the "Worst Idea on the Table"
He should be made to explain his change of mind.
Sep '10
Re: Herman Cain: National Sales Tax Is the "Worst Idea on the Table"
If you had checked the outline of his "plan" you would see he is selling it as a transition to the "Fair Tax". I think 999 is more about marketing than tax reform, but in fairness to Cain he has not radically changed his position. He opposed the VAT being added on top of the existing tax code. He is now proposing to do away with the tax code and substituting 999. He does deserve credit for proposing radical change instead of incremental adjustments that do not come close admitting the seriousness of the problem.
Re: Herman Cain: National Sales Tax Is the "Worst Idea on the Table"
Tom Paine
Diane Ellis, Ed.
Has he articulated the idea that you present above, that 9-9-9 is an "incremental introduction" or step toward the Fair Tax? I haven't heard it, but I'd be interested to know if he has indeed explained this. · Oct 18 at 10:59am
The explanation is on his website, but it's pretty garbled. · Oct 18 at 11:02am
Ah, you're right. Phase 1 is 9-9-9; Phase 2 is Fair Tax. Not much in the way of explanation of how you get from phase 1 to phase 2, but that's the plan.
Mar '11
Re: Herman Cain: National Sales Tax Is the "Worst Idea on the Table"
To be fair, he was talking then about adding a sales tax on top of the current system, which would, indeed, be insane. And I think the last 9 is a sales tax, not a VAT.
No doubt he will be grilled again on it tonight.
At least he has started a conversation on taxes, which is not a bad thing. Hopefully he and Mr Ryan will come up with something better, when he moves into the White House...
May '10
Re: Herman Cain: National Sales Tax Is the "Worst Idea on the Table"
I agree with that.
Sep '10
Re: Herman Cain: National Sales Tax Is the "Worst Idea on the Table"
Diane, here's the quote you gave: "A national retail sales tax on top of all the confusing and unfair taxes we have today is insane!"
999 is not on top of all the confusing and unfair taxes we have today. It's a simple system that replaces them. I don't see the contradiction.
Sep '10
Re: Herman Cain: National Sales Tax Is the "Worst Idea on the Table"
Bryan G. Stephens
I agree with that. · Oct 18 at 11:29am
What change of mind? The sentence is pretty straightforward.
A national retail sales tax on top of all the confusing and unfair taxes we have today is insane!
Sep '10
Re: Herman Cain: National Sales Tax Is the "Worst Idea on the Table"
Seriously, I don't get all this carping about the 999 from conservatives. For years we've yapped about how the tax code is a coercive instrument of government power and how the tax base ought to be broadened and class warfare needs to stop. Here we have a guy who simply and eloquently proposes just that and a lot of us are running around saying he's a crank. I loved the frat boys from NRO making endless 999 jokes on the live blog from the last debate. Right after they got finished there, they no doubt wandered over to their keyboards to compose "thoughtful" pieces about tax policy.
What's the alternative here? Do you want the tax code removed as a weapon or not? All this nonsense about "once it gets started, they can raise the sales tax rate" is idiocy. Do you have any idea how large the tax code is? Can you even tell if they're raising taxes now? A sales tax is infinitely more transparent than the monster tax code we've got.
Geeze, if you like what we've got, keep at it. Vote for Mr. Inevitable, Mitt Romney.
Apr '11
Re: Herman Cain: National Sales Tax Is the "Worst Idea on the Table"
We find ourselves debating the best way to feed Leviathan then the best way to starve the beast.
Shouldn't we be asking for the candidates to explain how and why government should be rolled back as was the emphasis of the Tea Party and the 2010 election?
A strong case could be made by any of the candidates, appealing to the American public, that every penny of theirs sent to Washington purchases for them another share of lost freedoms regardless of what they are promised in return.
May '10
Re: Herman Cain: National Sales Tax Is the "Worst Idea on the Table"
I agree with that too. Let's talk about this stuff.
David Williamson: To be fair, he was talking then about adding a sales tax on top of the current system, which would, indeed, be insane. And I think the last 9 is a sales tax, not a VAT.
No doubt he will be grilled again on it tonight.
At least he has started a conversation on taxes, which is not a bad thing. Hopefully he and Mr Ryan will come up with something better, when he moves into the White House... · Oct 18 at 11:27am
Aug '11
Re: Herman Cain: National Sales Tax Is the "Worst Idea on the Table"
Yes. And to that point, I think he's explained himself many times.
Aug '10
Re: Herman Cain: National Sales Tax Is the "Worst Idea on the Table"
"on top of all the confusing and unfair taxes we have today is insane!"
There lies the difference. His 9,9,9 plan replaces the current system and includes a sales tax. It isn't a sales tax in addition to the current system.
That says nothing about whether 9,9,9 is a good idea, only that there isn't any inconsistency between what he wrote then and what he says now.
Sorry for the bold, but cutting and pasting from above made this a perma-bold post.
Aug '10
Re: Herman Cain: National Sales Tax Is the "Worst Idea on the Table"
Step One: Collect Underpants.
Step Two: ???
Step Three: Profit!
(I'm not trying to make fun of Cain. He's currently my favourite candidate. It's just that Dianne's post made that South Park joke spring into my brain, and I just HAD to let it out.)
Edited on Oct 18, 2011 at 11:59amFeb '11
Re: Herman Cain: National Sales Tax Is the "Worst Idea on the Table"
I like Herman Cain. I think the 9-9-9 plan is interesting, not for what it is, but what it represents: a bold new approach that aims to cut to the heart of special dealings and complex regs. This helps to starve the beast by removing its ability to hide its takings. The objective is admirable.
Having said that, there is no way that I'd agree to a new federal tax stream of any kind (sales/VAT) unless the constitution was amended to specify that all taxes and fees from the federal government cannot exceed X% of GDP (somwhere in the 12-18% range). Only exception is in the case of a declared war and then only for X period of time. Also, any sales tax/VAT would have to be shown on the receipt, so that we are always reminded what we are paying.
Someone who thinks this big is worth paying attention to. He strikes me as someone who will plot a new course, not rearrange deck chairs on the Titanic.
Apr '11
Re: Herman Cain: National Sales Tax Is the "Worst Idea on the Table"
It's Thanksgiving day and Herman Cain is sitting at the table with his guests examining the decadence that is a 3000 calorie per plate meal of Turkey, Mashed Potatoes, Cranberry sauce and a huge vat of gravy. As they are considering the repercussions of the coming feast, someone suggests they follow up dinner with some jogging. Another guest says that a movie would be more enjoyable and finally a third guest wants pumpkin pie.
Cain: "A serving of pumpkin pie on top of all the food we have on our plate is insane! It gives the good-intending, but self-interested cooks another way to destroy our diet plans!"
Guest1: "What should we do?"
After a brief phone call with his doctor, Herman Cain turns to his guests.
Cain: "What I propose we do here is eat within our means. Seeing as the Turkey, Cranberry sauce and Pumpkin Pie are the best foods before us, let us replace everything here with just those. 9 grams of each! "
Guest1: "Marvelous!"
Guest2: "Didn't you just say eating pie was insane?"
Guest3: "he was against the pie before he was for it."
Cain: "It's a replacement portion! Happy Thanksgiving!"