Has your view of Obama changed because of Osama?
I've been tooling around the Internet this morning, thinking about and processing the death of Osama bin Laden. I saw this caption under one of the many NY Times photos:
As crowds gathered outside the White House, there was little question that Mr. Obama's presidency had forever been changed.
"Little question"? "Forever changed"?
What's wrong with me? I didn't even really consider Obama in all of this. Yeah, he's CiC. But I thought about things/people that, to me, have "forever been changed" because of Osama's death at the hands of American forces: our reflections of the events of 9/11, Navy SEALS, our armed forces, the victims of 9/11 and other terrorist attacks, the children of victims, friends who died that day, first responders in NYC, Bush, Giuliani, our children's future history books, etc.
Obama? I didn't really think of his presidency. Yeah, he OK'd the strike. Yeah, he had been monitoring the situation closely. Yeah, he made a speech (I didn't see it). Yeah, he gets credit for being our leader while our armed forces finally completed a decade-long goal. Great. I believe he's as patriotically joyous as the rest of us. I do. But didn't he do what any other human would do? Say, "Yeah, go for it" when he heard there was a chance to get him. Right?
Has this really "forever changed" his legacy? Help me out. Is this another Timesian spin? I'm not hatin' on the guy. Really. I just don't get it.
- Comment (70)
- · Quote
- · UnfollowFollow (2)
Comments :
Feb '11
Re: Has your view of Obama changed because of Osama?
Ursula Hennessey
Yes. That's my gut feeling, too, Finster. But I'm trying to find out if I should think about this differently. · May 2 at 9:27am
I think deep down inside , some of us here on Ricochet know that this will change his legacy for the better, and there is just a hint of disappointment that it didn't happen on W's watch. I am glad the POTUS made the decision to go in, and I hate to turn this into a partisan issue so early on, because this should be a proud moment for all Americans. (except for maybe Sean Penn and the gang)
Jan '11
Re: Has your view of Obama changed because of Osama?
Well, you're talking to a dedicated skeptic. If people come into the office and say that we have a "slam dunk," I'm thinking George Tenet, Jimmy Carter's helicopters, and the Bay of Pigs. Stuff goes wrong. (Uncertainty is a constant theme for me. If philosophy has taught me anything, it's that people often don't know what they think they know.)
I'm sure that every day, the president has to endure dozens of people who insist that they have a plan to solve every problem we face. After all, that's why they come into the office; they want to push the president into some course of action. And as president, how can you evaluate these schemes? How can you decide who's got a great idea versus who's a wild nutcase?
Frankly, in real life, it's mostly a guess. You try to be prudent, and as rational as you can. But it's still a gamble. Obama gambled here. This time, he won.
Mar '11
Re: Has your view of Obama changed because of Osama?
No...even a blind squirrel comes upon a nut every now and then.
Nov '10
Re: Has your view of Obama changed because of Osama?
Finster's comment # 41 comes pretty close to reflecting my own views. Though, personsally, I may well be a lot less disappointed than most conservatives. I sort of think that our republic works best when we are all-- both actually, as individuals, and symbolically, as a people-- on the same moral page. I like seeing Americans with different political views and different cultural perspectives dancing together in the streets, enthusiastically waving American flags, and singing patriotic songs.
All day long today, the over-arching news story dramatically underscores that we all pretty much agree that our nation has accomplished something truly magnificent; we all pretty much agree, viscerally, that it was the right thing to do and that it was a magnificently moral thing to do.
We brought justice to a person who's homicidal track-record seems to be explicitly demonic. Barack Obama gave the order. And, in so doing, today he allows all Americans to be very proud of the fact that America did not issue an empty threat ten years ago. Let Obama accrue as much respect or political advantage as he will, because of issuing that order. He could have said, "Don't do it."
Mar '11
Re: Has your view of Obama changed because of Osama?
This was Obama's black swan moment. Good for him, good for us and good for the world.
The man is more capable of leadership than I thought and he deserves credit for the decision to get OBL in this manner.
I was kind of giddy when I listened to his speech so I cannot give a precise analysis, but overall he hit the right points for me and his tone was appropriate. He didn't thump his chest, but he demonstrated pride in country and its armed forces.
I am so not a fan of the man and his leadership, but in this, he gets high marks
Sep '10
Re: Has your view of Obama changed because of Osama?
This certainly adds to our picture of what exactly President Obama believes in and what he is. He's not a pacifist: he is not above killing our enemies. That's a good thing as far as it goes. File it away as a data point for the next time you're trying to figure out what the explanation is for a particular piece of policy that on its face makes no sense.
The Times phrase "forever changed" is of course hyperbole. Nothing is forever, and this was not a deeply difficult decision to make. But it was a good decision, and my estimate of President Obama is raised.
Oct '10
Re: Has your view of Obama changed because of Osama?
I agree; Obama deserves great credit for this. This isn't a political moment, anyway; it's an American one. This transcends partisanship.
Jul '10
Re: Has your view of Obama changed because of Osama?
I think it's safe to assume most of us on here are in that 46% or so who will NEVER vote for him, no matter what...but I do think this is going to be influential to some of the folks in the middle, and it may actually energize a few of his disaffected supporters. For a while, at least. I think in the minds of a lot of journalists, this HAS changed his presidency forever and ensured re-election but those aren't objective individuals when it comes to this man. We know that. We'll see how much this is still a game-changer in 18 months. If gas is over $6/gallon...it won't matter in the least.
Re: Has your view of Obama changed because of Osama?
Finster, KC, and Raconteur -- Thanks for your comments. You each made some excellent, convincing points. You are truly helping me think through this, which is what I wanted/needed.
I just want to say for the record, however, that I wasn't trying to turn this momentous event suddenly "partisan" -- I'd truly hate for this post to be read this way.
I am not trying to begrudge Obama. Yes, I wish it happened on Bush's watch, but only because he had to experience the deep pain of the attack. But just as I would never *blame* Bush for the attack, nor do I credit Obama for the capture.
In both cases, under both administrations, I see the president as the leader, I suppose, but not blame- or praise- worthy of this type of terrorism-related issues.
This is absolutely a great day for America. My thoughts are with the family members of friends who died on 9/11 and I feel deep gratitude for the brave, miraculous work and determination of our armed forces. I guess I'm having trouble moving past those thoughts to "legacies" and "presidencies." Thanks again for your comments, all.
Edited on May 2, 2011 at 12:12pmFeb '11
Re: Has your view of Obama changed because of Osama?
Raconteur:
We brought justice to a person who's homicidal track-record seems to be explicitly demonic.
Well stated Raconteur.
Feb '11
Re: Has your view of Obama changed because of Osama?
Ursula , I am pretty sure that tomorrow I will go back to being the partisan hack that I am. In the meantime thank you for the post.
Jun '10
Re: Has your view of Obama changed because of Osama?
Ursula Hennessey
I just can't see anyone saying, "Hold off" if he/she got info that there was a way to get OBL. So, why such praise? · May 2 at 9:25am
I admit upfront this is an apples to oranges comparison because it was before 9/11, but didn't President Clinton do exactly that, i.e. say "hold off" the last time we had a chance to nab OBL?
Feb '11
Re: Has your view of Obama changed because of Osama?
My opinion of Obama was snake belly low before this, and it hasn't gone up one iota.
I can't imagine any likely occupant of the office of the Presidency declining the chance to kill or capture bin Laden once his whereabouts were discovered. I can't imagine any soldier, CIA agent, or DoD bureaucrat lacking the desire to hasten the search or doing their anything less than their utmost to bring it to a successful conclusion.
So I found it especially loathsome of Obama to note that on assuming the office he directed that the Pentagon start hunting bin Laden as a priority.
You know- because no one cared about it before he took over. Nope. No one ever thought to go looking for bin Laden before Teh Won ascended to the Presidency.
Bluntly, the US military deserved the credit for this, and not Obama. The organization that took bin Laden down is a product of the last ten years of war, not the last few months of the Obama administration. Killing bin Laden is as close to a no brainer as will ever exist in American politics.
Why does Obama deserve credit for doing the obvious?
Jun '10
Re: Has your view of Obama changed because of Osama?
Xennady:
I can't imagine any likely occupant of the office of the Presidency declining the chance to kill or capture bin Laden once his whereabouts were discovered.
Why does Obama deserve credit for doing the obvious? · May 2 at 12:01pm
True, but given his multilateral impulses so on display recently in Libya, he might have said "this is on Pakistani sovereign territory, let's engage them for a joint operation." If he'd gone that route someone would have leaked the info and Bin Laden might have slipped the noose.
If it's true that we went in w/o even alerting Pakistan that takes some guts and deserves at least some credit. Yes they are ostensibly an ally, but still, if Mexico flew a team of commandos across the border to take out a drug kingpin in L.A. we'd be pretty upset about it, right?
May '10
Re: Has your view of Obama changed because of Osama?
I will give him credit for not doing the deed with a drone. Go in, look him in the eye, dispatch him and take the body with you. That was the right call.
Feb '11
Re: Has your view of Obama changed because of Osama?
"True, but given his multilateral impulses so on display recently in Libya, he might have said "this is on Pakistani sovereign territory, let's engage them for a joint operation."
If it's true that we went in w/o even alerting Pakistan that takes some guts and deserves at least some credit."
True, but I think this is covered by the no-brainer aspect of this. Obama knows full well everyone in the US would love to see bin Laden dead or captured, and he wasn't about to mess that up just because of a silly principle or anything like that.
Plus, the left also wanted this to happen. Not only because of 9/11, but also now they think the war on terror is over and everyone can come home.
If that sounds ridiculous- just wait. I bet we'll hear that view soon enough.
Sep '10
Re: Has your view of Obama changed because of Osama?
My off-the-cuff hockey metaphor is: I guess Big O kind of scored a shorthanded goal in overtime of a playoff elimination game ... but his team needs to win at least three more to take the series.We'll just see about that.
Dec '10
Re: Has your view of Obama changed because of Osama?
Most of you are more magnanimous than I am. What courage does it take, political or otherwise, to "make the right call", when the press will cover your keister however badly you screw up?! "Gutsiest decision by any recent president" my red, white, and blue a..!
There is no courage without the risk of negative consequences. Obama is immune to them because of the left's institutional power in America. If the operation had failed or gotten the wrong guy, there would have been no repercussions for Obama, at least not in the U.S.
And he's so self-aggrandizing!
Rant over.
Mar '11
Re: Has your view of Obama changed because of Osama?
The more I think about this, the happier I am with how this justice was served. Osama Bin Laden almost certainly knew that he was being killed by Americans - that is an awesome accomplishment. And not only did Osama know, all of his colleagues will know that he was brought to his end knowing who was doing it - his enemies - the forces of freedom - America. That is sweet justice. Obama does not deserve the same level of praise as those brave men who carried this out, but it would not have happened without his approval. That counts for something - not redemption, but praise nevertheless.
We cannot be blinded by our distaste of Obama and his policies to ignore this success.
Aug '10
Re: Has your view of Obama changed because of Osama?
Reading this conversation has made me think again. I thought Obama's speech was political, self-aggrandising and petty ( in it's failure to acknowledge Bush's efforts). I still think all of that but now give more credit to Obama than I did initially for the operation and his decision-making role.An overseas contingency operation well-executed!