Has Your State Seceded Yet?
The White House has received secession petitions from 40 states now, with Texas getting over 80,000 supporters (no surprise). When a petition gets 25,000 signatures, it triggers a review by the White House. I’m going to guess that next week the White House will announce that their “We the People” program will require 3 million signatures to trigger a review in order to avoid this nonsense.
I find this somewhat bizarre because before the election I was tweeting that if Obama won then South Carolina would secede again. Who’d have thought anyone would take it seriously?
In one sense, this petition drive is pathetic and can be used as evidence of the decline of the rebel American spirit. I mean, did any of the southern states submit a petition to leave the Union? No. They blew Fort Sumter to pieces. They’d probably shake their heads if someone told them that their descendants would be such pansies that they were reduced to filling out bureaucratic paperwork to get another rebellion going. I know people like to say that the South will rise again, but this isn’t what I had in mind.
On a more serious note, this is stupid. Especially after all the social conservative-bashing that I have to endure. If this is what you meant by trying out a libertarian approach then I rest the case I made in Rob’s thread.
Back on a lighter note, maybe we can take advantage of this and do some hypothetical scenarios? If a rebellion were to get going then who do you think should be the president? Commander-in-Chief of the rebel army? How about Gary Johnson and David Petraeus? He should know something about insurgencies. His second-in-command could be Jesse Ventura.
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Comments:
Apr '12
Re: Has Your State Seceded Yet?
Have you seen the petitions to get the people who signed secession petitions thrown out of the country and stripped of their citizenship?
Oct '12
Re: Has Your State Seceded Yet?
I think it would make more sense, to quietly prepare your state and local governments for seccession. I would recommned several logical steps: moving a states gold back to your state, issuing state 'commerative coins' in a variety of denominations (maybe a lot of them in reserve), and forming local and state emergency management systems that can be implemented without FEMA. Now that I think about it, hasn't Texas' Governor Perry started most of that in the last 12 months.
Edited on November 14, 2012 at 5:05amSep '12
Re: Has Your State Seceded Yet?
I would settle for a renewed effort on behalf of returning the powers to the states already due them under the 1oth Amendment. States should prepare for a time when the federal government is no longer functional - at least at the current level. That's just common sense.
I would also revisit the 16th Amendment and deny the federal government the right to directly tax citizens (used for doling the money back to the states to achieve desired behavior). Let the states levy the taxes and pass them to the federal government based on some mutually agreed level.
Aug '12
Re: Has Your State Seceded Yet?
Everyone vents after an election. I remember the United States of Canada/Jesusland posters. They were dumb then, this is dumb now.
1.) If 40 states really wanted to secede over Obama's election, he wouldn't have been elected in the first place.
2.) Even if secession were allowed, the President is in no position to allow it.
3.) Nor, for that matter, is the President allowed to strip citizenship from people for signing a petition.
4.) And regardless, secession won't solve any problems that wouldn't be equally well solved by generic federalism.
5.) 25,000 people (even 80,000) is a drop in the pond compared to the 50 million+ who voted for each candidate.
6.) I will re-evaluate my position when Obama declares "will no one rid me of these turbulent priests," and not a moment before.
Feb '12
Re: Has Your State Seceded Yet?
Up here, in Alaska, there exists (and has for a while) the Alaska Independence Party. It has its foundation in a secessionist dream. It has morphed into de facto Libertarian Party which occasionally lashes out against the Republican Party of Alaska. It was kind a Tea Party before there was such a thing. A former US Secretary of Interior actually found his way back to the Governership in mid '90's, one Walter Hickel. I have heard loose secession ramblings from various people for a while.
My thoughts?
The Dougherty Family established itself in Iowa in the middle of 19th century, immigrating from Ireland. From there, my Grandfather followed work to Montana and raised a family in Butte. My mothers grandfather was a pioneer horse rancher in Montana. He raised a daughter who earned her degree from U of Michigan before the sinking of the Titanic. My mother had a great uncle who spent time in Andersonville. My fathers father suffered severe back burns in a railway accident while serving in that capacity in WWI. My Uncle was killed near Hagenau by a direct hit from a mortar. My father directed artilley fire upon Hitler's forces in Germany.
Edited on November 14, 2012 at 8:53amFeb '12
Re: Has Your State Seceded Yet?
I served five years in the armed services. I met Americans from all over this country contributing to the continued legacy of a great nation. I knew Texans, Massachusettsians, Louisianans, Missourans, Michiganders and, well, you get the point. My Air Force Academy Graduate nephew just return two weeks ago from flying missions in Afganistan. Another nephew departed the Army in the spring following two tours in Afghanistan as Blackhawk flight mech/gunner, hauling around various special forces units.
I'll be darned if I will tolerate loose talk of dissolution of this union!
By God, it still has a future.
P.S. I, of course, don't mean to seriously cut off reasoned discussion. I got a little carried away with that last sentence.
Edited on November 14, 2012 at 8:19amJul '10
Re: Has Your State Seceded Yet?
This is ridiculous. No state is going to secede.
And Bereket, while I agree that attacking So Cons as the cause of our shared electoral loss is idiotic, Libertarians don't deserve to be tarred with the pro-secession brush.
Sarbdance is right generally, most pointedly in item #5: if we're talking about secessionists in Nov. 2012, we're likely talking about cranks.
You could probably find 25,000 people who believe "The Smoking Man" is the reason the Buffalo Bills lost four consecutive Super Bowls, or that musicals aren't annoying, if you tried.
Feb '12
Re: Has Your State Seceded Yet?
Agreed, but you can bet it is going to be held up as proof that conservatives are sore losers. Seen as trying to take the ball and go home. Galling.
Jun '12
Re: Has Your State Seceded Yet?
Yes. We are kidding ourselves if we don't recognize where the increased polarization of this nation is headed. Especiually once the economic [expletive] hits the fan.
Jun '12
Re: Has Your State Seceded Yet?
bereket kelile
The White House has received secession petitions from 40 states nonsense....
In one sense this petition drive is pathetic and can be used as evidence of the decline of the rebel American spirit. I mean, did any of the southern states submit a petition to leave the Union? No. They blew Fort Sumter to pieces. They’d probably shake their heads if someone told them that their descendants would be such pansies that they were reduced to filling out bureaucratic paperwork to get another rebellion going. I know people like to say that the South will rise again but this isn’t what I had in mind....
I heard the petition was rejected because it wasn't filled out in triplicate. Crisis averted. Whew!
May '12
Re: Has Your State Seceded Yet?
Is secession by petition a long shot, probably. Consider this:
Texas regularly has has 30+ 100 degree days in summer and counts on coal fired plants to cover the additional power during surge periods.
Obama's EPA has ordered many (all) of these plants closed. When summer gets here and Texas is faced with rolling blackouts, spoiled food, deaths from heat, etc. Texas authorizes the plants to stay on line.
Obama continues his war on Texas and sends federal agents to shut the plants down.
Texas responds with local law enforcement and Texas Rangers to intervene and keep the plants open. It is 100+, tempers are short, a clash between federal agents and local law enforcement ensues, a shot is fired.
If secession ever happened it won't take place on a White House web site. The Obama platform is soft tyranny that tends to manifest itself in ways not easy to predict, especially in a country with states that hold the 2nd Amendment dear.
edit sp.
Edited on November 14, 2012 at 2:48pmMay '12
Re: Has Your State Seceded Yet?
Paul Dougherty: I'll be darned if I will tolerate loose talk of dissolution of this union!
By God, it still has a future.
P.S. I, of course, don't mean to seriously cut off reasoned discussion. I got a little carried away with that last sentence. · 6 hours ago
Edited 6 hours ago
Paul, I served also and your passion and arguments are well respected. I think your timing is off. The dissolution of the Union began when we as a nation stopped fighting to keep our republic.
When the majority were seduced into voting themselves benefits from the Treasury believing they can pass the bill on to the 'rich' and their children via debt the dissolution of the Union was underway.
This is what soft tyranny, soft dissolution, etc. looks like. I don't think there will be a romantic Declaration of Independence moment the decay is well along and the endgame will come from places and events least expected, but it is coming because we have brought it on ourselves.
Jul '11
Re: Has Your State Seceded Yet?
It seems to me that going to the White House website to fill out a petition is silly. It would make more sense to go to the FBI site and sign up as “I am a crank that really does not like the President, Please investigate me. Full body cavity searches and no knock warrants are optional.”
Edited on November 14, 2012 at 4:10pmDec '11
Re: Has Your State Seceded Yet?
I think a debate in the state houses on the value of the union is probably the healthiest thing that could possibly be done.
Quebec and Scotland are still in their respective unions.....
Kind of a marriage on the rocks, everybody has to step back and make a choice about what this all about and what the road ahead is like, and if its worth it.
May '10
Re: Has Your State Seceded Yet?
My state, California, hasn't succeeded, either, nor will it.
May '12
Re: Has Your State Seceded Yet?
There may be some upside to this White House petition stuff. Austin has started a petition to secede from Texas if Texas secedes from the Union.
Jun '12
Re: Has Your State Seceded Yet?
Please show me where, in the Constitution:
Here's a hint: it doesn't exist.
This is all more in the same vein of Hollyweird leftists promising to leave the country if Republican X is elected. Name me one that has followed through on such a promise.
Jun '10
Re: Has Your State Seceded Yet?
Insisting on 10th Amendment principles is fine. But this kind of nutbaggery needs to be avoided. The press will have a field day with this.
Dec '10
Re: Has Your State Seceded Yet?
For those in the military or federal government employ: remember that you took an oath and signing one of these petitions is considered breaking that oath.
Jun '12
Re: Has Your State Seceded Yet?
Tom, aren't we all living in California now? I kid ( kind of).