Hall of Fame and Gratitude
The Baseball Hall of Fame results are in.
The most interesting related stories, in my view, involve the apparent vote punishment given to former Houston slugger Jeff Bagwell for seeming to have possibly taken steroids, based on statistics and some shaky circumstantial evidence.
In a related note, Rafael Palmiero feels sad.
On a more personal note, I need a favor. If I ever receive any kind of award, ever, for any reason whatsoever -- whether I really deserve it or whether I've been robbed in the past -- please remind me what true, classy gratitude sounds like. I never want to say anything like the following to the national media seeking my comment after I win:
"It's been 14 years of praying and waiting, and I thank the baseball writers of America for, I'm going to say, finally getting it right." -- Bert Blyleven.
"Last year I got so close. I expected that this year I (would) at least be able to make it, but I didn't think that I was going to get that many votes." -- Roberto Alomar.
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Dec '10
Re: Hall of Fame and Gratitude
I wonder if Alomar will have John Hirschbeck introduce him.
I think Palmiero and McGwire will never be elected. They'll probably get in a decade from now by the veteran's committee.
I'm surprised about Lee Smith and Don Mattingly.
Larkin will make it and probably Bagwell too after the writers feel he's been sufficiently punished.
Jun '10
Re: Hall of Fame and Gratitude
Bert Blyleven, a year or two ago:
http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/21134540/vp/30987773
Jul '10
Re: Hall of Fame and Gratitude
There's nothing wrong with what either said. It's a reflection of the idiotic process baseball uses. How does Blyleven go 14 years before he gets inducted? So for 13 years he wasn't a Hall of Famer then one day he suddenly is despite the fact he hasn't played a game in that time? What changed?
This happens year after year with players who eventually get in. It has turned into a game about who is on the ballot that year rather than objectively looking at players' careers. Blyleven getting in this year has more to do with the slow building of consensus where other writers noticed he was close and gave him their votes coupled with the lack of a stand-out candidate to draw attention away from him. That is exactly what both of them are pointing out. They did nothing to become Hall of Famers since last year when they weren't inducted. There's nothing wrong in pointing out the absurdity of the game the BBWAA continues to play regarding who gets inducted and when.
Re: Hall of Fame and Gratitude
Whiskey Sam: ....
This happens year after year with players who eventually get in. It has turned into a game about who is on the ballot that year rather than objectively looking at players' careers. Blyleven getting in this year has more to do with the slow building of consensus where other writers noticed he was close and gave him their votes coupled with the lack of a stand-out candidate to draw attention away from him. That is exactly what both of them are pointing out. They did nothing to become Hall of Famers since last year when they weren't inducted. There's nothing wrong in pointing out the absurdity of the game the BBWAA continues to play regarding who gets inducted and when. · Jan 6 at 9:12am
I agree that you (and others) should be pointing it out. I'm not sure that the recipients should be doing that. Just my opinion.
Do you think that having current HOF members vote in new HOF members would be a better process than having baseball writers vote? I wonder if that would make it (seem?) less controversial/random.
May '10
Re: Hall of Fame and Gratitude
There's already a Veterans' Committee to correct injustices.
Blyleven's biggest problem is that he played for a lot of crappy teams. He was often called the poor man's Nolan Ryan. But he only had one no-hitter as opposed to Ryan's seven (and at one point Ryan had 4 in a three-season span). He did his job well but flew well below the radar.
Alomar was hurt by the spitting incident and a very messy personal life that borders on the criminal if his wife's allegations are true. He must have had good relationships with the writers.
May '10
Re: Hall of Fame and Gratitude
EJHill
Blyleven's biggest problem is that he played for a lot of crappy teams. He was often called the poor man's Nolan Ryan. But he only had one no-hitter as opposed to Ryan's seven (and at one point Ryan had 4 in a three-season span). He did his job well but flew well below the radar.
"He currently ranks 5th all-time in Strikeouts, 9th all-time in Shutouts, and 27th all-time in Wins."
But when he retired he was #3 all time in strikeouts.
In 1973 he threw 9 shutouts.
In 1987 he won the World Series with the Twins.
Re: Hall of Fame and Gratitude
EJHill
There's already a Veterans' Committee to correct injustices.
Blyleven's biggest problem is that he played for a lot of crappy teams. He was often called the poor man's Nolan Ryan. But he only had one no-hitter as opposed to Ryan's seven (and at one point Ryan had 4 in a three-season span). He did his job well but flew well below the radar.
Alomar was hurt by the spitting incident and a very messy personal life that borders on the criminal if his wife's allegations are true. He must have had good relationships with the writers.
Well, Alomar wasn't really hurt -- I mean, 90% of the vote in Year 2 is pretty good.
Also, help me out here, EJ. The Veterans' Committee hasn't and doesn't make the process any simpler or "more fair," does it? A policy of correcting (known) problems after the fact isn't the best policy.
Jun '10
Re: Hall of Fame and Gratitude
Both Blyleven and Alomar deserve to be in, but Ursula makes a good point. Only four words are needed: "Wow! I'm really honored."
Oct '10
Re: Hall of Fame and Gratitude
And let's not forget, Bert has what is probably the all-time best Chris Berman ESPN nickname: Bert "I'll Be Home" Blyleven
That alone makes him Hall-worthy.
Jul '10
Re: Hall of Fame and Gratitude
Ursula Hennessey
Do you think that having current HOF members vote in new HOF members would be a better process than having baseball writers vote? I wonder if that would make it (seem?) less controversial/random. · Jan 6 at 9:19am
I think that is an excellent idea! That would add another level of responsibility to being in the HOF, and provide input from the men who actually played with the candidates. I wouldn't throw out the writers entirely, but this idea of someone becoming a Hall of Famer after decades on the ballot needs to stop. If they were good enough 14 years later they were good enough the day they were eligible. Hopefully removing that process which drags these guys through the emotional wringer each year would make for some more gracious remarks on induction. I think you're seeing them react this way as they feel a measure of vindication and justification for their careers after being told repeatedly "Sorry, you weren't good enough." when they were told all during their playing days "You're a sure-fire HOFer."
I'm still waiting for Tommy John to get in!
May '10
Re: Hall of Fame and Gratitude
Yeah but you know ballplayer egos. They all want to be introduced as first-ballot guys.
Awards are never "fair," in sports or the arts. They all boil down to popularity contests. If one could only ask the entire HOF roster if they'd rather have a World Series ring or Cooperstown, I think every last one of them would rather have the ring. Pete Rose may never be in the Hall but he's got three things that Ted Williams, Ty Cobb and Ernie Banks will never have - those three rings.
And Mr. Wilson, I never said Blyleven didn't deserve the call. I just tried to rationalize the wait. I don't know if he had good relations with the writers or not. Sometimes that carries over, too.
Edited on Jan 6, 2011 at 10:47amRe: Hall of Fame and Gratitude
All true, EJ. I just wonder if injustices that seem to come from fellow players might be less complain-worthy (?) than injustices coming from writers. I mean, there's an obvious animosity there. Many writers hold some bitterness that they never were good enough to play professionally. Many players hold bitterness that they can't really control the story that gets out there. It's like Mets fans voting in the players for the Yankees Hall of Fame ... or something. Maybe not the best analogy, but the system just seems so ripe for complaints and gripes. Maybe -- or maybe not -- valid. But the if the mistakes come entirely from their own 'kind' maybe they sting less. Thoughts?
May '10
Re: Hall of Fame and Gratitude
The vote is the one thing that engenders cooperation between the players and the writers that cover them. Drop the BBWA votes for the Hall and the postseason awards and watch the postgame gaggles disappear into nothingness. It serves baseball's overall interests to keep the status quo.
If not, non-cooperation with the press will have to become another issue thrown into the mess that is the collective bargaining agreement.
Re: Hall of Fame and Gratitude
EJHill: The vote is the one thing that engenders cooperation between the players and the writers that cover them. Drop the BBWA votes for the Hall and the postseason awards and watch the postgame gaggles disappear into nothingness. It serves baseball's overall interests to keep the status quo.
If not, non-cooperation with the press will have to become another issue thrown into the mess that is the collective bargaining agreement. · Jan 6 at 11:00am
Well, it is in the CBA already. I'm not sure players decide to talk to a writer (or not) based on possible future HOF voting. Maybe later in a career a guy might mellow toward a veteran writer, but the media-player relationship -- in all sports and in good and bad times -- is driven by many complicated issues.
May '10
Re: Hall of Fame and Gratitude
I don't know about you but the last place on earth I want to be is inside a ballplayer's head. (Although, based on a few conversations I've had, there's plenty of room up there.)
I think we've touched on the access question before. There are many writers and broadcasters who just won't do negative stories because they fear losing access. The whole Mark McGwire steroids story is a case in point. It wasn't a local beat writer that did the original reporting.
I also know of some big name players who could have played in big markets for big bucks but didn't lest their personal lives become fodder for the press.
Aug '10
Re: Hall of Fame and Gratitude
The biggest injustice is that Harold Baines didn't make the 5% threshold required to stay on the ballot.
http://mlb.mlb.com/team/player.jsp?player_id=110456
The writer's bias against the DH is ridiculous. The rule has been around for longer than I have been alive. Baines was a great hitter and deserved the nod.
As for the whole punishing of steroids users issue...I think the sports writers need to do three things.
1) Re-read "Ball Four" and stop believing in the fiction that past athletes didn't use "performance enhancing drugs." Amphetamines have a larger affect on performance than steroids.
2) Get over themselves as they helped to keep the whole steroids thing under wraps when it made a good story.
3) Realize that the only thing wrong with using PEDs is their long term harmful effects. If there were no harms to them, we would all use them in our day to day lives and they would be called dietary supplements.
The whole "Steroids Scandal" is a self-righteous scam that avoids serious discussion of the issue. The fact is that these athletes are foolishly risking destroying their lives to entertain us.
Re: Hall of Fame and Gratitude
EJHill
I think we've touched on the access question before. There are many writers and broadcasters who just won't do negative stories because they fear losing access. The whole Mark McGwire steroids story is a case in point. It wasn't a local beat writer that did the original reporting.
I also know of some big name players who could have played in big markets for big bucks but didn't lest their personal lives become fodder for the press. · Jan 6 at 11:23am
All true.
Re: Hall of Fame and Gratitude
Nathaniel and EJ -- don't you agree, then, that the writers should be left out of the H of F voting? Let players from other eras -- who know what there is to know or have their own definitions of "cheating" -- make the decision for those who come after. Seems it would tidy up a muddy process. Not make it perfect, of course. As EJ points out, these things aren't ever really "fair."
May '10
Re: Hall of Fame and Gratitude
I would say that it a good idea if it was open to any player who had at least 5 years total service time. The scrubs and the solid but not superstar player know how hard the game is. I would strongly advise against a system where the vote would be limited to current HOF'ers.
I also know (because I work with so many of them) how the ex-players look at the current crowd.
May '10
Re: Hall of Fame and Gratitude
About that Blyleven quote: He's tongue-in-cheek funny (see etoiledunard's link above) and one of the good guys. That statement was said in good humor--though it was also very true.
Blyleven was a gamer with the most beautiful drop-off-the-table curveball (and thank goodness, because his fastball couldn't break glass). He was cursed to play on some pathetic teams (He won 19 games here for a dismal early-80's Indians team--performing for less than 10,000 fans most nights), and shouldn't be penalized for it.
And he would've blown by 300 wins had he been on teams similar to those of that turd Clemens.