Hall Of Fame Voting And The Steroid Standard
Sports writer Bob Klapisch has a column I can't quite get behind on account of how he's not voting for the great Jack Morris. But he raises some interesting questions about how we'll vote now that those who played during the steroid era are in contention:
Next year, however, the election process dissolves into chaos when the referendum on steroids arrives with the class of 2013, which includes Barry Bonds, Roger Clemens, Sammy Sosa, Mike Piazza, Craig Biggio and Curt Schilling.
Good luck to anyone trying to make sense of the ballot’s hazy instructions, which urges voters to consider a candidate’s “character.” But, how, exactly does that apply to the juicers?
Punish the ones who openly admitted to cheating? No forgiveness for them?
How about the ones who were suspected but never caught or, for that matter, not even mentioned in the Mitchell Report? Obviously it’s a messy science, although some have suggested a black-and-white solution: Either let them all in, or banish them all to purgatory, convicts and suspects alike.
I'd add a question about whether post-injury or post-surgery steroid use is acceptable. I'm curious what the sense of the Ricochet house is on steroid use.
Of course, we could all make this next year's balloting easier by just letting Jack Morris in already. And I can't stand the Twins! Or the Tigers! I did meet Morris in a Seattle bar once, on the first day of a baseball trip I did with a friend. We talked about steroids and Hall of Fame voting.
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Comments:
Apr '11
Re: Hall Of Fame Voting And The Steroid Standard
Next week’s Cooperstown election results today
May '10
Re: Hall Of Fame Voting And The Steroid Standard
I could be talked out of this position, but I think we should let the users from the "steroid era" in the Hall. During that time usage was widespread and the lack of effort to police it amounted to tacit approval from MLB. Combined with the impossibility of separating all the users from the non-users, I throw up my hands and say, let 'em all in.
Jul '11
Re: Hall Of Fame Voting And The Steroid Standard
I agree. It became a culture that was not only legal for quite some time but encouraged as well. Jack Morris would get my vote too by the way.
Jun '10
Re: Hall Of Fame Voting And The Steroid Standard
He should be in the Hall: 254 wins, playing for some good teams and some not so good teams.
Edited on January 10, 2012 at 6:22pmRe: Hall Of Fame Voting And The Steroid Standard
Mollie, don't leave us hanging in anticipation. What was Jack Morris' take on steroids and hall of fame voting?
Re: Hall Of Fame Voting And The Steroid Standard
Automatic disqualification. I assumed it was like legal immigrants' take on illegal immigration. You want someone opposed to illegal immigration? Find someone who did the hard work of waiting in line and doing what they were supposed to do.
May '10
Re: Hall Of Fame Voting And The Steroid Standard
I wrote a post back in October honoring Jack Morris on the 20th anniversary of his epic World Series MVP performance. Here is Mollie's description of him from the comments:
Apr '11
Re: Hall Of Fame Voting And The Steroid Standard
I have actually been thinking about the Hall today after someone in my twitter feed made a comment about how Barry Larkin's accomplishments the last few years finally put him over the top and into the Hall. Why is it that one year his 2340 hits and .295 BA aren't good enough and the next year they are? The steroid era is going to make this even crazier. I'm sure the BBWAA will punish players for PEDs use and suspicion of use. I'm not saying that Mark McGuire and Sammy Sosa don't deserve some serious thought about whether or not they deserve to be in the Hall. All I'm saying is that they have had 5 years to think about it and should be able to make up their minds in that time. Nothing those guys do next year or the year after that changes what they did both positively and negatively on and off the field when they were players. Why even have the 5 year waiting period?
Jul '11
Re: Hall Of Fame Voting And The Steroid Standard
Can't stand the Twins? C'mon! Kirby Puckett was an inspiration and that '91 series was spectacular.
With respect to steroid use, I'd favor the Morris "automatic disqualification" route. This steroid era has nearly ruined the game - purge all of the juicers and honor the players that actually understand sportsmanship. If Pete Rose is disqualified for being stupid, don't reward much more corrosive behavior.
Edited on January 10, 2012 at 6:43pmMay '10
Re: Hall Of Fame Voting And The Steroid Standard
I go back and forth on this. Right now I'm with letting them in, but their plaque needs to record all their misdeeds, e.g., "Barry Bonds, Pittsburgh Pirates & San Francisco Giants, Multiple MVPs, 7XX Home Runs, Admitted Steroid User and Convicted Perjurer." Likewise for Pete Rose. And then let Shoeless Joe in.
Mar '11
Re: Hall Of Fame Voting And The Steroid Standard
Keeping in mind that some of the people who have made allegations are lower than whale poop and that if they were to make the statement that "water is wet," I would require independent verification...
Ban them. There were honorable guys in the sport who belong in the Hall who will never get there because they weren't juicing. There are probably players who never even got a chance to break into the bigs because a member of the the Pharmaceutically Enhanced Brigade was taking up a berth.
Apr '11
Re: Hall Of Fame Voting And The Steroid Standard
See Bill James' The Politics of Glory and JoePo's
HOF Story 2: The Holdovers
Probably the best short answer is that the ballot changes every year, most writers don't fill up their ballot, and not all writers are serious in their selections (although the vast majority are).
May '10
Re: Hall Of Fame Voting And The Steroid Standard
There are pretty players and there are gritty players. The pretty ones are the ones like Barack, with or without ntalent, but who charm the press; the gritty ones are such as Netanyahu, whom reporters hate but you would want by your side in a life-and-death situation. Derek Jeter is Barack, Jack Morris is Bibi. (Although I was disgusted that he fled Minnesota in 1992 for Canadian mammon)
Can't forget the 3.90 ERA? The real issue is what your ERA is when the chips are down, not during August when you go 7 innings twice a week on the road and win 6-3.
The HoF should be for winners who win in the trenches, not NY and LA media favorites. If your team was about to be eliminated in the '80's and early '90's, the guys you would want as starters were two non-HoF pitchers, Morris and Dave Stieb- both willed themselves to win and never gave up.
May '10
Re: Hall Of Fame Voting And The Steroid Standard
Bad deeds and good deeds do not cancel each other out. They both contribute to the reputation of a man.
Why not let some of the "bad guys" into the Hall of Fame like Pete Rose and Barry Bonds based on their achievements, then set up a parallel Hall of Infamy and make them the featured members there as well?
Jul '11
Re: Hall Of Fame Voting And The Steroid Standard
So those who admitted the truth about what they did in the days prior to illegal use are to be punished while those who lied and continue to lie get to go in with PED records?
Shall we apply a lie detector test prior to their names being on the ballot? To punish those who have admitted and reward the liars seems more in tune with our current culture of immorality and selfishness.
Can we just apply an asterisk? Barry Bonds should get a double asterisk though.
Mar '11
Re: Hall Of Fame Voting And The Steroid Standard
I disagree. Steroids make players better. Better players make for better games. However, those who refuse to use throw the game out of whack.
I say make steroid use mandatory.
Sep '10
Re: Hall Of Fame Voting And The Steroid Standard
If we end up with Jim Rice in, and Barry Bonds out, they might as well just shut the place down, because it has nothing to do with Baseball anymore.
May '10
Re: Hall Of Fame Voting And The Steroid Standard
Glenn - I disagree with your last sentiment. For all their flaws I think all of BBWA members are very serious about their role in electing members of the Hall. And most of them are happy to share their ballot and their reasoning with their readers.
As for what numbers qualify for admission, writers don't compare apples and oranges. Shortstops and catchers are not required to have the same numbers as a first baseman or outfielders because of the physical demands of their defensive positions.
As we begin the steroid era of retired players, they should be seen for what they were: cheaters.
Now that Larkin is in the Veterans Committee needs to rectify another injustice, namely putting his predecessor in the Hall with him. For 40 years the Reds had just two shortstops and they both should be in.
Apr '11
Re: Hall Of Fame Voting And The Steroid Standard
A documentary about steroids called Bigger Stronger Faster came out a few years ago. It is fascinating in that it doesn't shy away from the fact that steroids really work, and it refuses to come down squarely for or against. It is difficult to draw the line because there is such a huge gray area once humans start doing supposedly "unnatural" things to their bodies. Most people probably agree that "traditional" anabolic steroids should be banned, but how about human growth hormone? Blood doping? Greenies? Energy drinks? Lasik eye surgery? Tommy John surgery?
It's not at all obvious to me what the right answer is.
Apr '11
Re: Hall Of Fame Voting And The Steroid Standard
I'm more of a small-Hall guy. It wouldn't bother me too much if the Hall had only 20 players in it, guys who are arguably the best ever at their position. But that isn't what the Hall is, and hasn't been for many years. And I'd be a little sad at losing Cy Young and Sandy Koufax because we had Walter Johnson and Lefty Grove and we have room for only two pitchers.
As regards PEDs: the problem is that there is no way to know who used and who did not. If Clemens wins his case, will that make him clean? Will it make him clean enough? Are the whispers about Bagwell enough to keep him out? I don't like it much, but I say let them in.
Jack Morris was very good, but he doesn't go into my Hall. He just doesn't cross the line of excellence for me.