Half Amnesty Or Why Won't This Work?
So, tell me why this won't work. With the amnesty debate coming again to the forefront I was thinking there might be a solution that actually works to the favor of, or at least isn't disastrous for, the center/right. Why not offer half amnesty where long-time illegal aliens would be granted a legal permanent residency, but one that precludes them from becoming citizens. It would be a special category of green card that says one can live and work here, but may never apply for citizenship as long as one holds it. To become eligible for citizenship a resident would have to surrender his green card, return to his home country, and apply to return legally like everyone else.
The beauty of this is that it removes the emotional "living in the shadows" argument and recognizes as a practical matter that most illegals here aren't going anywhere while still justly penalizing the law breaking and denying the left millions of new voters. Sure the left will demand full citizenship, but that's a much harder sell when the debate shifts from illegal aliens being trapped in poverty to legal residents being justly sanctioned for being scofflaws. Of course this half amnesty must be combined with much tougher enforcement of current laws against hiring or contracting with illegal alien labor and with stronger border enforcement to mitigate the moral hazard of amnesty encouraging more illegal immigration, but it seems workable. It would mostly neutralize the amnesty issue. It may, but probably not, improve Republican standing with Hispanics. It likely would improve Republican standing with swing voters. And, it would at least partially mollify the hard anti-illegal wing. What's not to like? (Plenty, I'm sure so please tell me).
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Comments:
Re: Half Amnesty Or Why Won't This Work?
Andrew, I'm afraid you answered your own question. "Sure the left will demand full citizenship..." Al Sharpton will camp in front of microphones to announce that, "America should not be a place for second class citizenship." We'll see news reports that show hard working immigrants, working beaucoup hours a week, paying taxes, contributing to the community, and then our heart strings will be played like a violin because these people get all the work but none of the benefits of citizenship. And who will get the blame? Those heartless Republicans. We can't out liberal the liberals. And if we provide citizenship, the left will demand free college tuition, affirmative action, the right to bring extended family, a national holiday, ad infinitum, until the whole thing implodes from its own weight. Our every moderation and concession will be met with vilification for not having conceded enough.
How's that for a downer? Sorry,...but I'm just looking at history and drawing conclusions.
Oct '10
Re: Half Amnesty Or Why Won't This Work?
Dave Carter: Andrew, I'm afraid you answered your own question. "Sure the left will demand full citizenship..."
...And who will get the blame? Those heartless Republicans. We can't out liberal the liberals. And if we provide citizenship, the left will demand free college tuition, affirmative action, the right to bring extended family, a national holiday,ad infinitum,until the whole thing implodes from its own weight. Our every moderation and concession will be met with vilification for not having conceded enough.
How's that for a downer? Sorry,...but I'm just looking at history and drawing conclusions.
Anticipating the objections doesn't necessarily mean we should abandon a good idea. If we stop short every time a Liberal complaint to our proposals occur to us, we might as jump in the grave now.
I don't know if this is a good idea, but we should explore it on merits other than just 'how easily can they vilify us for it?'
May '12
Re: Half Amnesty Or Why Won't This Work?
I think it is an idea that merits more debate.
Other issues that should be raised is what happens to the children of the legal resident aliens? Do they become citizens by virtue of the 14th Amendment or Obama's Dream Light act? If so we have a big incentive to continue the flow of illegal entrants seeking the welfare hammock. If not we end up with a sizable permanent alien class of pseudo citizens.
I still think we would go a long way by increasing the number of naturalized citizens each year and made the case here:
http://ricochet.com/member-feed/Immigration-Start-with-the-Data-and-Avoid-the-Swamp
Jul '11
Re: Half Amnesty Or Why Won't This Work?
I am still waiting on a non porous border. Until the border is under control any amnesty discussion is self defeating and unworkable.
Jul '11
Re: Half Amnesty Or Why Won't This Work?
Why make anybody legal? What additional rights does it give other than the right to vote democrat?
Jun '12
Re: Half Amnesty Or Why Won't This Work?
Exactly.
Stop the flood first.
Then we'll be happy to sit down and discuss amnesty, paths to citizenship, all that stuff.
But amnesty advocates always hold out closing the border as an incentive to support their amnesty plans, and then it never happens.
You've (the amnesty advocates) promised to pay us Tuesday for a hamburger today. Guess what. It's Tuesday, we want what you agreed to back in 1986.
Edited on November 18, 2012 at 5:55pmMay '10
Re: Half Amnesty Or Why Won't This Work?
Because Reagan's amnesty gave the GOP a solid Hispanic base for generations?
Jun '12
Re: Half Amnesty Or Why Won't This Work?
Yeah, right...
May '10
Re: Half Amnesty Or Why Won't This Work?
Andrew, I have had the same idea for years. It's not second class citizenship, because they are not citizens. But, yes, this conversation is meaningless until the border is secured.
Jun '12
Re: Half Amnesty Or Why Won't This Work?
However, you can confidently expect the race-baiters on the left to declare it second-class citizenship, bring up the plantations, "put y'all in chains," etc.
Feb '12
Re: Half Amnesty Or Why Won't This Work?
If I were King, a new green card program would start as soon as we can deport 1% of anyone we choose right now of the ~12 million illegals or 120,000 (without the left fighting / crying about breaking up families ).
Jun '10
Re: Half Amnesty Or Why Won't This Work?
ConservativeWanderer
Exactly.
Stop the flood first.
Isn't it fairly easy to enter the country on a tourist visa? And if someone enters legally and then stays, how do you track them down and deport them in a country this big?
It seems to me even if you built a fence and completely sealed the southern border it wouldn't stop the flood, people would just cross legally and then stay. Am I missing something?
Aug '12
Re: Half Amnesty Or Why Won't This Work?
Joseph Stanko
Isn't it fairly easy to enter the country on a tourist visa? And if someone enters legally and then stays, how do you track them down and deport them in a country this big?
It seems to me even if you built a fence and completely sealed the southern border it wouldn't stop the flood, people would just cross legally and then stay. Am I missing something? · in 0 minutes
It's actually quite difficult to get into America on a tourist visa for anyone from a non-first world country. If you've ever discussed this with someone from South America or the Philipines, you will learn that this is a months-long process requiring proof of employment, familial ties, and money. Basically, you have to prove you have something to come back to.
Jun '12
Re: Half Amnesty Or Why Won't This Work?
Joseph Stanko
ConservativeWanderer
Exactly.
Stop the flood first.
Isn't it fairly easy to enter the country on a tourist visa? And if someone enters legally and then stays, how do you track them down and deport them in a country this big?
It seems to me even if you built a fence and completely sealed the southern border it wouldn't stop the flood, people would just cross legally and then stay. Am I missing something? · 5 minutes ago
So, because it's impossible to stop it altogether, you're unwilling to try to even slow it down?
Oct '12
Re: Half Amnesty Or Why Won't This Work?
First, make having a job in the country a criminal offense for the employee and employer. Not a fine, but a crime! Further, I have been advocating amnesty for residency, but to gain citizenship; an illegal alien would have to leave, and return legally. I think it's the most practical solution. In order to gain legal resident status, the alien would have to have documented profeciency in English, employment, no felonies, and that status can NOT be used to bring more relatives to the USA.
Edited on November 18, 2012 at 10:09pmJun '10
Re: Half Amnesty Or Why Won't This Work?
ConservativeWanderer
So, because it's impossible to stop it altogether, you're unwilling to try to even slow it down? · 58 minutes ago
No, but we need to be realistic in our expectations. Illegal immigration is a black market, like drugs or prostitution. Enforcement costs a lot of money, and often ends up encroaching on our liberties as well.
That doesn't mean we give up, but we need to be sensible and consider the cost/benefit trade-offs. I'd be willing to legalize pot, and then focus drug enforcement resources more narrowly on the harder, more addictive drugs. And I'd be willing to create a guest worker program and then focus our border security resources on keeping out criminals and terrorists.
Sep '12
Re: Half Amnesty Or Why Won't This Work?
It won't work, for reasons already stated. Rather than winning or defusing the issue, this solution would merely provide additional angles from which to attack conservatives as hate-filled xenophobes.
Jun '12
Re: Half Amnesty Or Why Won't This Work?
Joseph Stanko
And I'd be willing to create a guest worker program and then focus our border security resources on keeping out criminals and terrorists. · 46 minutes ago
Given that we've been promised "oh, we'll get serious about border security, after we get this amnesty/guest worker bill passed" as far back as 1986, I want to see the beef-up of border security first.
That's all I ask. Show me you're serious about keeping your word to crack down.
Oct '12
Re: Half Amnesty Or Why Won't This Work?
ConservativeWanderer
Joseph Stanko
And I'd be willing to create a guest worker program and then focus our border security resources on keeping out criminals and terrorists. · 46 minutes ago
Given that we've been promised "oh, we'll get serious about border security, after we get this amnesty/guest worker bill passed" as far back as 1986, I want to see the beef-up of border securityfirst.
That's all I ask. Show me you're serious about keeping your word to crack down. · 2 minutes ago
Border security unless we literally close the country will be almost impossible. Visa's for tourists and students are still passed out at the millions per year. The only realistic approach is cutting of the cheese that's attracting the mice. Employment restrictions and penalities are the only way to slow the flood.
Oct '12
Re: Half Amnesty Or Why Won't This Work?
In a free society, it will be impossible to close the borders. We admit millions of legal tourists and students yearly. You have to make employement without a proper visa a crime for both employer and employee. Stop the 'fines' and put some employers in jail. The problem will end quickly.