Haley, Comet
James Poulos, Ed. ·
Aug 21, 2010 at 11:51am
In Ricochet's-Own-Gov.-Haley-Barbour news, The Week has your rundown of this round of buzz: Is Haley Barbour the Republican to Beat in 2012?
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Jul '10
Re: Haley, Comet
He's got it all: obese, with a Boss Hawg accent, a history as a tobacco lobbyist and a track record at the helm of a state that's pretty much dead-last in every possible quality-of-life metric. A culture warrior in a libertarian age. And a Washington insider to boot!
What a dream candidate.
From David Axelrod's point of view.
May '10
Re: Haley, Comet
Let me take some of the air out of the "David Axelrod" point of view. Governor Barbour ran one of the most disciplined and effective RNC operations we've seen in the early '90s. He has a district- and precinct-level command of U.S. politics that is unrivaled by anyone except the likes of Karl Rove. He is quick on his feet, comfortable in his own skin, and probably couldn't care less that someone doesn't like his accent. I'm sure Mississippi bashing will be all the rage if Governor Barbour runs, but let's not forget that, after Hurricane Katrina, Mississippi in general and Governor Barbour in particular reminded us all how competent adults respond to and move beyond misfortune.
And speaking as a Southerner, I'd much rather have "David Axelrod's" caricature of Governor Barbour as opposed to the kind of effete and defenseless Republican that will please the folks on our side of the aisle who are perfectly happy to finish second.
Edited on Aug 21, 2010 at 1:45pmJul '10
Re: Haley, Comet
All of which makes him valuable as an RNC Chairman and inside operative.
But as a retail candidate, he's just too-easily caricatured. No matter what his message, to the great unwashed, he looks and sounds like a Dixiecrat. In an era where the "insider" label is poison and voters have come to realize that government is hostage to lobbyists, he's an easy takedown. And his social-con message has negative resonance with independents.
As for his masterful handling of Hurricane Katrina, it got no purchase in the public mind at the time and is unlikely to now.
Good man. But unelectable. I see him as the Phil Gramm of 2012.
May '10
Re: Haley, Comet
To Kenneth's point, if the country could've voted for Clinton/Gore 2x, I'd say Barbour has a chance. Bill Clinton ran a state that continues to compete for last place. I lived in Arkansas for 5 unfortunate years, and I'll guarantee that the tooth-to-head ratio is higher in Mississippi. Al Gore's family made its money on tobacco. Gore was also a Washington insider. Both men have southern accents. Barbour can run as long as he makes Condi Rice his VP. In fact, any GOP nominee should make Rice his/her VP.
Jun '10
Re: Haley, Comet
Kenneth: He's got it all: obese, with a Boss Hawg accent, a history as a tobacco lobbyist and a track record at the helm of a state that's pretty much dead-last in every possible quality-of-life metric. A culture warrior in a libertarian age. And a Washington insider to boot!
What a dream candidate.
From David Axelrod's point of view. · Aug 21 at 12:49pm
Let Mr. Harvard Law Review take the condescending Southern-stereotype path to run against Haley Barbour, and Barbour will clean his clock with it. I don't think Obama would be dumb enough to do it, but I wish he would. It would backfire, bigtime.
Jul '10
Re: Haley, Comet
Condi Rice? Oh, please, don't even get me started.
May '10
Re: Haley, Comet
Sorry, Kenneth, but I've long since refused to indulge anyone's wink-and-a-nod stereotype that people who speak with a Southern accent suffer from some sort of intelligence deficit (I'm assuming - hoping - that your "Dixiecrat" reference goes to his accent and not his politics). True story: My wife is from North Carolina. She was left speechless one day when, out and about in her small hometown in the Blue Ridge Mountains, some nasal-toned nitwit actually asked her (in all seriousness) whether her house had indoor plumbing. I see no reason to condition our nominations on the ridiculous sensibilities of people who are that howl-at-the-moon stupid.
May '10
Re: Haley, Comet
Sorry, Matthew. I, as one with a bunch of relatives in South Carolina (where I was a week or so ago), totally agree with your comments about how ugly and condescending some stereotypes are, as your wife rightfully reflected with her shocked response.
Marco Rubio, Tim Pawlenty, even Mitt Romney could run out of Mississippi because each would be against type, as Clinton was as a lefty Dem from the South. But you cannot play into the stereotypes, you have to play against type.
I love Haley, and agree with Kenneth here (I will say plenty about his views RE GZM on another thread) about why Barbour would not work as a national candidate despite his considerable gifts.
Newt is the same way- short, chubby, talented, and dead in the water as a national candidate.
Edited on Aug 21, 2010 at 3:48pmJul '10
Re: Haley, Comet
Prove it. Most, if not all polling indicates the opposite.
Jul '10
Re: Haley, Comet
Michael Tee
Prove it. Most, if not all polling indicates the opposite. · Aug 21 at 4:33pm
Here you go: http://www.pollingreport.com/prioriti.htm
5 recent polls (minus CBS News, where 31% answering "other" makes it useless in terms of our discussion.)
In every single poll, economic and national security issues - libertarian concerns - dominate, by a wide margin. "Social issues" don't get above 2% in any of the polls.
Or take the most recent Gallup, again dominated by economic concerns, while social issues register at 3%.
If you have polls that contradict these, I'd be interested to see them.
Thoughtful Americans - by which I mean those who do not lean Left, realize that we have bigger fish to fry rather than duke it out over social issues. And canny voters realize that all that the obsession with social issues has accomplished over the years is to drive independents away from the GOP.
Edited on Aug 21, 2010 at 5:12pmJul '10
Re: Haley, Comet
Matthew Gilley
Sorry, Kenneth, but I've long since refused to indulge anyone's wink-and-a-nod stereotype that people who speak with a Southern accent suffer from some sort of intelligence deficit (I'm assuming - hoping - that your "Dixiecrat" reference goes to his accent and not his politics). True story: My wife is from North Carolina. She was left speechless one day when, out and about in her small hometown in the Blue Ridge Mountains, some nasal-toned nitwit actually asked her (in all seriousness) whether her house had indoor plumbing. I see no reason to condition our nominations on the ridiculous sensibilities of people who are that howl-at-the-moon stupid. · Aug 21 at 3:35pm
For the record, I hold no stereotype about Southerners. I've worked with hundreds of Southerners, found them to be quite smart and to have better social skills than most people up North.
But unfortunately, Barbour is likely to remind many voters of Foghorn Leghorn.
Jul '10
Re: Haley, Comet
Duane Oyen: Sorry, Matthew. I, as one with a bunch of relatives in South Carolina (where I was a week or so ago), totally agree with your comments about how ugly and condescending some stereotypes are, as your wife rightfully reflected with her shocked response.
Marco Rubio, Tim Pawlenty, even Mitt Romney could run out of Mississippi because each would be against type, as Clinton was as a lefty Dem from the South. But you cannot play into the stereotypes, you have to play against type.
I love Haley, and agree with Kenneth here (I will say plenty about his views RE GZM on another thread) about why Barbour would not work as a national candidate despite his considerable gifts.
Newt is the same way- short, chubby, talented, and dead in the water as a national candidate. · Aug 21 at 3:47pm
Edited on Aug 21 at 03:48 pm
Which GZM thread would that be?
I love this site. The commenters are smart, thoughtful, measured.
And a mere $3.47 a month keeps out the trolls, such as one who recently posted at another right-wing site that "All White Christians are Muslim Hating Scum!!!"
May '10
Re: Haley, Comet
Kenneth For the record, I hold no stereotype about Southerners. I've worked with hundreds of Southerners, found them to be quite smart and to have better social skills than most people up North.
But unfortunately, Barbour is likely to remind many voters of Foghorn Leghorn. · Aug 21 at 5:23pm
No need for apologies - I didn't mean to imply that those were your beliefs. Good discussion.
Edited on Aug 21, 2010 at 6:45pmJul '10
Re: Haley, Comet
Matthew Gilley
Kenneth For the record, I hold no stereotype about Southerners. I've worked with hundreds of Southerners, found them to be quite smart and to have better social skills than most people up North.
But unfortunately, Barbour is likely to remind many voters of Foghorn Leghorn. · Aug 21 at 5:23pm
No need for apologies - I didn't mean to imply that those were your beliefs. Good discussion. · Aug 21 at 6:43pm
Edited on Aug 21 at 06:45 pm
Again for the record, where I spent my summers, in a logging village in the Sierras, we didn't have indoor plumbing until the '60's. Heck, we didn't even have electricity. But we did have a stream running fifty feet past the porch, where you would go down in bare feet and catch your breakfast.
Now it's true that in the other months, I went to school in the valley, where we had suburban mod cons. But I hated every minute of it. I wanted to be back in the mountains, on our porch, with a fly rod, casting for bats as they swooped around the darkening sky.
May '10
Re: Haley, Comet
It would be worth totally worth it just for how fun it will be to watch Obama against a fat, Southern, arch-conservative that can totally clean The One's clock in a one-on-one debate.
Jul '10
Re: Haley, Comet
Why do we even call them "debates" anymore? They've degenerated into a pathetic Kabuki theater, where preening "journalists" serve up softballs to the Democrat and gotcha barbs to the Republican.
They need to be scrapped and replaced with a format that has real value. Too bad Bill Buckley has gone to his reward: two candidates sitting at a simple table with WFB moderating would be a joy to watch.
Re: Haley, Comet
Kenneth
Why do we even call them "debates" anymore? They've degenerated into a pathetic Kabuki theater, where preening "journalists" serve up softballs to the Democrat and gotcha barbs to the Republican.
They need to be scrapped and replaced with a format that has real value. Too bad Bill Buckley has gone to his reward: two candidates sitting at a simple table with WFB moderating would be a joy to watch. · Aug 22 at 6:47am
As Our Vice President once said, we don't need to do this kabuki dance.
I don't suppose we can think of any folks among the living who would make suitable presidential debate moderators in '12?
Aug '10
Re: Haley, Comet
After having listened to and read the series of debates between Christopher Hitchens and Douglas Wilson on Christianity and atheism, the contrast between a real debate over a premise or resolution and the infantile gibbering that passes for debate in politics could not be more stark. I think Christopher Lasch has part of a chapter in The Revolt of the Elites where he addresses this exact issue and compares current (then early 1990s) practices with the Lincoln-Douglas debates. Of course, this issue begs the question of whether the average person could follow something along the lines of the Lincoln-Douglas debates, now. If not, then the begged question is, "Why not?"
Aug '10
Re: Haley, Comet
And one other thing: When I was in high school in the mid-80s, I was on the wrestling team and because of my weight, I was always paired for practice with a black guy who just flat out smelled bad. The kind of B.O. that gets a-holt of you and don't let go.
Anyway, I complained to my coach who simply told me that's what happens when you can't afford running water in your house. That shut me up real quick and I never made another peep about it. My wrestling partner's name was Charles. I think Charles would shower at the school after practice. Obviously, I haven't forgotten it and I hope I never do.