Gun Regulations -- What Does and Doesn't Work?
The overwhelming response to my post on guns proved what we all knew (like all good social science): there are a lot of gun owners on Ricochet. As some pointed out, McDonald and Heller seem to introduce a balancing test for the Second Amendment that might allow reasonable regulation of firearm possession. I am curious how hard or easy it is to buy a gun in different states and cities.
In California, you have to take a written test, but -- contrary to the popular notion that everything about gun ownership is difficult in California -- the exam is ridiculously easy. There is a booklet on the internet that contains all the questions and answers (just like getting a driver's license). And only a fool would fail many of the questions even without study. I believe one of the questions was something like:
Q: What is the safest direction to point a gun
1. At yourself
2. At another person
3. In a random direction
4. At the ground
5. In a direction where no one or nothing is located
If you study for more than 10 minutes, you should pass. I think you need get only two-thirds right to do so. And if you fail, you can take it again right away. Then you get a license that allows you to buy guns. The whole process is sort of like the bar exam without the wait.
The serious lesson, I'd suggest, is that if you want to regulate something properly, putting up tests or rules for the activity itself is often ineffective, silly, or counterproductive. The most efficient method would be a tax. States, especially ones deep in the fiscal hole like California, should make it as easy as possible to get guns, but tax them heavily.
What are the gun possession barriers like in other places?
- Comment (49)
- · Quote
- · UnfollowFollow (20)
Comments:
Jan '12
Re: Gun Regulations -- What Does and Doesn't Work?
It seems like it ought to be possible to make the licensing tests meaningful. Taking your driving analogy further, Mr. Yoo, California requires a signed certificate from an accredited instructor as well as a number of hours or supervised driving. Surely gun ownership could have similar standards applied without jeopardizing 2nd amendment rights. Perhaps a signed certificate from the NRA or other instruction service on gun maintenance, gun safety, and accuracy training might be in order?
Dec '10
Re: Gun Regulations -- What Does and Doesn't Work?
First, you only have to pass the test in order to buy handguns. As a concealed weapons permit holder, let me then say that your right to own and effectively possess firearms is conditional upon which county you live in. In my county, with a second amendment friendly sheriff, what you have to do is possess a clean criminal record, take a training course, demonstrate your knowledge of firearms laws, show proficiency in the use of your firearm, and pass a background check. One of the real problems is that the most effective and, for the most part, desirable pistols are unlawful in California. Another real problem is that some of the counties have sheriffs who are not second amendment friendly, and permits are very difficult to get.
Dec '10
Re: Gun Regulations -- What Does and Doesn't Work?
A further thought: now that the Democrats have a super majority in the legislature, expect a further run on firearms. Last year they attempted, in the guise of modifying the "bullet button" requirement, to pass a law that would have effectively outlawed most, if not all, semi-automatic rifles in the state. There is no telling what they might do now, liberals never rest in their various manias, and the gun desiring public will act accordingly. The real problem is that liberals want to disarm a citizenry, half of which thinks they have an unalterable right to be personally armed.
Dec '10
Re: Gun Regulations -- What Does and Doesn't Work?
Even further thoughts: I have been a criminal defense attorney for three decades. I am very aware that law enforcement officers are incapable of protecting us. They react only after the violent event, and then often ineffectually. We protect ourselves, both from individual acts of violence and civil disturbance. In my county, heavily armed and confident, there is very little true household burglary; that would be a good way to get yourself shot.
Jun '10
Re: Gun Regulations -- What Does and Doesn't Work?
Indeed, I took the California test and it's ridiculously easy. Already quite familiar with gun safety (I had gone shooting numerous times before buying a firearm), I was curious enough (and bored enough, I suppose) to read through the booklet they offer you to prepare (it was optional). It's trivial stuff.
And yes, I was so amused by the stupidity of the questions that I told my friends about it. The example I used was exactly yours -- "What is the safest direction to point a gun?" They didn't believe me -- they thought I was making a joke!
Note for those who might misinterpret Prof. Yoo's words: You don't have to wait to take the test (or take it again if you were to fail, which would be an impressive achievement) and get the certification, but in California you still have the mandatory waiting period after purchasing the firearm before you can pick it up.
Dec '10
Re: Gun Regulations -- What Does and Doesn't Work?
The requirements in my first post regard a Carry Concealed Weapons permit, i.e. a license to carry a concealed handgun.
Dec '10
Re: Gun Regulations -- What Does and Doesn't Work?
By the way, guns in California are already heavily taxed. Enough, already.
May '11
Re: Gun Regulations -- What Does and Doesn't Work?
I am not sure about Washington state. For a concealed weapon's permit, I'm pretty sure that you only need to pass a background check (i.e. criminal background ... when I fill out plea forms, there is a box I sometimes check that says "you will not be able to own or possess firearms until you have that right restored by a court of law.") For the actual purchase of a gun, there is a waiting period. I'm not sure what they are doing during this time. Possible another, less rigorous, background check?
I refuse to register a gun. Therefore, for me, the best way to buy a gun is to go back to Montana and talk to your friends, and find out who wants to sell you one.
Mar '11
Re: Gun Regulations -- What Does and Doesn't Work?
I'm still not convinced that the driver's license requirement is a good idea, so I'm not going to be much help on this thread.
Nov '11
Re: Gun Regulations -- What Does and Doesn't Work?
In Texas you have to fill out the federal questionaire about your background and then have the gun dealer contact their ATF office for a go/no-go. It took me all of an hour to purchase my handgun, which I did in the home of someone I knew who had an FFL and was willing to broker the deal for me.
Dec '10
Re: Gun Regulations -- What Does and Doesn't Work?
In MO, you come into the store, pick out your firearm of choice, fill out the ATF form 4473, the FFL calls the FBI or logs onto their ECheck site and runs your background check. If they get a "Proceed" response, the sale is made and you're done. If they get a "Denied" response, they tell you that and how to see why. If they get a "Delay" response, the FBI has three business days to contact them with a Proceed/Deny response. After the three business days the dealer can proceed without FBI say-so unless he has reason to believe that he should not.
Concealed carry is fairly easy.
You have to be fingerprinted and undergo a standard FBI background check on the official paperwork, then you get a new license with the CCW endorsement, or like most people do, another ID card with the CCW endorsement (because the CCW renews every three years, but your license only renews every five years, and a driver's license is more expensive to renew than a non-driver ID card).
MO is a "Shall Issue" state, so the CCW issues unless you pop as a felon or a loony.
Dec '10
Re: Gun Regulations -- What Does and Doesn't Work?
This system seems to work fairly well. It's not too ridiculous IMO (although the fingerprinting deal for the CCW is a PITA out in the rural areas where the cops don't do a lot of fingerprint work).
However, we do not want or need any new taxes on top of the ones we already have on weapons and ammunition.
The Federal Gov't already applies an excise tax of 10% & 11% respectively to firearms and ammunition, which is paid directly by the manufacturer.
Sep '10
Re: Gun Regulations -- What Does and Doesn't Work?
The safest place where you can point a weapon is where you intend to shoot for you are responsible for as long as it is in your care.
For Procurement.
Alaska laws are much the same as Missouri's. The only exception would be with the concealed carry portion, Alaska concealed carry is after the same day sale is made, you go into your car, and you put it in your pocket.
My opinion is unless an explicit reason that comes from a conviction of a jury of your peers, you should imjplicitly allowed to purchase a weapon.
Not only that I think that even in that event that you are denied that right, you should be able to restore those rights if a group of criteria are met. A reasonable criteria could be making the victimized party whole would be the minimum. Punitive charges would also be appropriate. This would require negotiation between the state, the victim party and the person making amends. In the case of a murder, the murdered party would need to come back from the dead, if that can happen I could be satisfied, especially if the murderer did the resurrection.
Dec '10
Re: Gun Regulations -- What Does and Doesn't Work?
It took me 20 minutes at the sheriff's office to get my concealment license in Wa. It saved me a five day wait on buying my pistol.
Sep '12
Re: Gun Regulations -- What Does and Doesn't Work?
When I moved to Florida from New York, I decided to do as the Romans do and visited a gun store and a gun show. I was shocked by how expensive handguns are. I had thought, because of the news and hours of Law and Order, that guns were cheap--like $100--and that I might buy one to take up shooting as a hobby; it would be more fun than golf, which I thought of as expensive. Boy was I wrong. And, so, I remain (sadly) gunless.
Edited on December 8, 2012 at 1:40amDec '10
Re: Gun Regulations -- What Does and Doesn't Work?
I didn't get to share this on your previous post, John, so I'll post it here.
My brother, who signs all his correspondence BMGAA (buy more guns and ammo) said this about gun sales in Ohio:
I guess the message is, no matter what the rules are in your state, you might want to do what it takes to get yourself a weapon. You don't want to be the only one empty handed.
Mar '11
Re: Gun Regulations -- What Does and Doesn't Work?
I said this in RedFeline's post earlier, but it bears repeating.
Regardless of any background checks, tests, taxes, waiting periods, etc., I have friends who could direct me to some less friendly neighborhoods where, cash in hand, I could get weapons and ammo. Sure they might be hot, but a gun is a gun.
Mar '11
Re: Gun Regulations -- What Does and Doesn't Work?
Dave: When I moved to Florida from New York, I decided to do as the Romans do and visited a gun store and a gun show. I was shocked by how expensive handguns are. I had thought, because of the news and hours of Law and Order, that guns were cheap--like $100--and that I might buy one to take up shooting as a hobby; it would be more fun than golf, which I thought of as expensive. Boy was I wrong. And, so, I remain (sadly) gunless. · 27 minutes ago
Edited 27 minutes ago
You've got to shop around a bit. Places online like Sarco, J&G Sales, and several other ones deal in police & surplus trades. Sarco last year had Sig P226's for $300. Sure they were 20 years old, but the only wear on them was holster wear. Spend another $50 on some new springs, maybe some newer grips, and you're set.
For the really budget minded, there are some "off brands" like Hi-Point. They're pigs to shoot since they use unlocked breaches and straight blowback, but $120 to $160 with lifetime warranties. Made in Ohio.
Mar '11
Re: Gun Regulations -- What Does and Doesn't Work?
Addressing the topic of the post, Ohio is easy. No waiting periods, statewide pre-emption of stupid municipal restrictions. CCW requires a 12 hour class, fingerprints. However reciprocity with other states could be better.
CCW also has a stupid "duty to inform" clause for any law enforcement encounters (traffic tickets, etc.). Mind you, if you are pulled over the cops would already know you have CCW from doing a plate scan, but you have to tell them anyway. Failure to do so will net you a prosecution.
Class 3 items are legal (read: silencers, full auto, SBR, SBS, AOW).
However, there is an idiotic restriction on magazines. You can OWN a magazine that carries more than 30 rounds, but you cannot USE that magazine. The moment you put that magazine in your gun, Ohio law treats it like a "machine gun". Belts, stripper clips, and en-bloc clips are at least exempt.
Also, merely having a loaded magazine in the car is treated the same as transporting a loaded weapon, even if the magazine is nowhere near your weapon. Belts, stripper clips, en-bloc clips again exempt.
Still, better than New York.
May '10
Re: Gun Regulations -- What Does and Doesn't Work?
Tax it heavily?
It may not have occured to Prof. Yoo that not everyone is in a position to pay a heavy tax to exercise their 2nd amendment rights.
Let's tax political commentary heavily too. That would probably balance even California's budget.