Great Game: Nice Play, Turkey
I''m really impressed by this. Given the gravity of the situation, I'm not going to give any advice, but it sure is a mighty interesting suggestion:
I am certain that there are plenty of Israelis and Turks who want to mend the relations between the two countries, which are worsening with every passing day. However, the burden is on the Israeli side because they were neither militarily harassed nor physically attacked by an armed party. They can start by declaring that they are ready to pay a reasonable sum to the families of the deceased. This means an apology of some sort. Even better, the apology could be directed to the families of those killed. This way Israel’s politicians will not feel humiliated or defeated.
My second suggestion to rebuild the damaged psychological and diplomatic bridges (leaving aside economic and military connections) is that Israel be urged to refrain from forging alliances with Turkey’s opponents, such as the Greek Cypriot government, and to instead invite Turkey into a cooperative scheme to search for oil and gas reserves in the eastern Mediterranean, including the part of the sea over which Turkey has rights. This move will yield a much larger area for economic exploitation. Economic cooperation will ease tensions and help rebuild the damaged relationship. Egypt could also be included in this partnership, which would ensure peace and stability in the region.
An outstanding play. From a purely Realpolitik point of view, might make sense for Israel to think about it, no? I'm sure that a student of Churchill such as Netanyahu also appreciates that in times of existential threat, you don't get to be too ideologically picky about your allies. A Turkish-Israeli Friendship, Tolerance and Joint Strategic Energy Exploitation Pact would certainly shake things up--and expose a lot of hypocrisy.
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Aug '10
Re: Great Game: Nice Play, Turkey
Is it fair to assume that Cyprus (except the Turkish part) would be excluded from the cooperative? It certainly isn't fair to ignore the evidence that some on the Mavi Marmara had more than just a political agenda but were bent on violence.Too many weasel words for my liking.
Re: Great Game: Nice Play, Turkey
Of course they did. Charles, the world isn't fair. Israel doesn't get a huge choice of terrific allies. What part of existential are people not getting?
Jul '10
Re: Great Game: Nice Play, Turkey
Claire Berlinski, Ed.
Of course they did. Charles, the world isn't fair. Israel doesn't get a huge choice of terrific allies. What part of existential are people not getting? · Sep 25 at 11:10am
The mass conscription part, I think.
Re: Great Game: Nice Play, Turkey
Palaeologus
Claire Berlinski, Ed.
Of course they did. Charles, the world isn't fair. Israel doesn't get a huge choice of terrific allies. What part of existential are people not getting? · Sep 25 at 11:10am
The mass conscription part, I think. · Sep 25 at 11:16am
Sadly, I think you're right.
Apr '11
Re: Great Game: Nice Play, Turkey
The concept of blood money has a long tried and true history in the ME. The Americans have been paying blood money for years in their various ME and S. Asia wars. I believe blood money doesn't necessarily carry the implication of culpability. I didn't see much on blood money and Israel, maybe they have proscribed it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood_money_%28term%29
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diyya
"In Saudi Arabia, when a person has been killed or caused to die by another, the prescribed blood money rates are as follows
Jul '10
Re: Great Game: Nice Play, Turkey
Read in the whole, this piece is a demand for capitulation. I disagree sharply with Viator's suggestion that "blood money doesn't necessarily carry the implication of culpability." Quite the opposite. In a case such as this, with Israelis conducting a lawful boarding coming under physical attack by activists wielding lethal force, Turkey's brazen demands for capitulation are based on their size and willingness to lie in the face of video evidence, not the justice of the case.
The cooling between the two countries is not a product of the incident, the incident is a symptom of the cooling. An AKP seeking an improved Turkish leadership position in the Muslim world, rooted in romanticized dreams of Caliphate or not, revitalized by a recent mandate, is going to align itself with other Muslim powers on this issue of commonly shared bigotry and intolerance.
Especially on the occasion of an American regime inclined to look the other way, or even actively support, aggression against an American ally.
Turkey should consider the long term. In 408 days Americans go to the polls and the rules of the Great Game change again.
Mar '11
Re: Great Game: Nice Play, Turkey
Turkey initiated hostilities with Israel, using the flotilla as a proxy.
Israeli weakness in this situation leads directly to war. The more weakness, the faster the slide.
I think allying with Greece is the only path left to Israel that postpones active hostilities with Turkey.
Jun '10
Re: Great Game: Nice Play, Turkey
Erdogan is a filthy lying slimeball. You don't make deals with slimeballs, because their word means nothing.
Mar '11
Re: Great Game: Nice Play, Turkey
“You don’t make deals with slimeballs”
Sometimes you don’t have the option of dealing with the man in the white hat.
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The Egypt angle (in addition to the Turkey angle) intrigues me....
Jun '10
Re: Great Game: Nice Play, Turkey
Crow's Nest: “You don’t make deals with slimeballs”
Sometimes you don’t have the option of dealing with the man in the white hat.
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The Egypt angle (in addition to the Turkey angle) intrigues me.... · Sep 25 at 12:33pm
Israel's not that desperate, and really, everybody has an option. There's always the Thomas More option (...as I, the big chicken, write from my warm safe home in the USA.)
Mar '11
Re: Great Game: Nice Play, Turkey
Oh, and on a somewhat separate topic: Claire, not sure you've seen it, but Bloggingheads.TV today has a Turkey-centric podcast with Mustafa Akyol (billed as being "straight out of Istanbul" [feat. NWA]).
Would be interested in your response, if you think anything said is even worth the time (even if the response is only the folly of the media to understand what is happening in Turkey).
Aug '10
Re: Great Game: Nice Play, Turkey
Claire Berlinski, Ed.
Palaeologus
Claire Berlinski, Ed.
Of course they did. Charles, the world isn't fair. Israel doesn't get a huge choice of terrific allies. What part of existential are people not getting? · Sep 25 at 11:10am
The mass conscription part, I think. · Sep 25 at 11:16am
Sadly, I think you're right. · Sep 25 at 11:19am
Why would Erdogan go for any of this? My perception (poorly informed I'm sure) is that he wants to the new Ataturk before Egypt gets to have a new Nasser. Where would cosying up to Israel fit in with that?
Apr '11
Re: Great Game: Nice Play, Turkey
"On the side of a road in a ramshackle tent tribal elders have gathered for a court case, but it is not an ordinary law court, it's a tribal court. Shoes are strewn outside and, inside, the elders sit resplendent in traditional garb. The case defies logic - one brother has killed another, but the tribe they belonged to is blaming a rival tribe for the killing. Their argument is that if there had not been a feud with the other tribe, the killing would not have taken place; they are now demanding $20,000 in blood money. Over copious glasses of sugary tea it is all sorted out. At the tribal court, the discussion is heated, but NOT ABOUT GUILT OR INNOCENCE. Through a complex network of tribal support, both sides know where they stand, now it is just a matter of agreeing the money. Eventually the price is knocked down to $4,000 and a woman, her value to be determined in later negotiations. For many Iraqis it's a system that works, and in a violent region recompense appears much more practical than locking someone away."
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3449869.stm
Edited on Sep 25, 2011 at 1:27pmApr '11
Re: Great Game: Nice Play, Turkey
I admit no knowledge of the Israeli position vs. blood money about which I am sure they have thought long and hard. I do know the concept of blood money was one of the tools the Americans adopted to eventually prevail in the Iraq conflict. A prima facie case can be made that the payment of money to prevent say the future killing of five, ten or one hundred tribal members or soldiers is probably money well spent and has a long historical precedent in some cultures.
Apr '11
Re: Great Game: Nice Play, Turkey
I wonder why people think the Arab Spring is going to bring a new centralism? I am inclined to believe that revolution and civil war will prove fatal to the already staggering, statist, aid habituated ME economies who didn't have the gift of petro-treasure and create room for all kinds of religious, ethnic and tribal resentments to surface leading to devolution. If you want a model for what the future holds look to Sudan, Somalia, Ethiopia or Iraq before the Americans put the lid back on it.
Edited on Sep 25, 2011 at 2:24pmRe: Great Game: Nice Play, Turkey
Crow's Nest: Oh, and on a somewhat separate topic: Claire, not sure you've seen it, but Bloggingheads.TV today has a Turkey-centric podcast with Mustafa Akyol (billed as being "straight out of Istanbul" [feat. NWA]).
Would be interested in your response, if you think anything said is even worth the time (even if the response is only the folly of the media to understand what is happening in Turkey). · Sep 25 at 12:48pm
I had to switch off halfway through. Between the naivete of the guy on the right and Mustafa's willingness to gloss over what's going on in Turkey--not liberal--I was going to hurl. Incidentally, it's not religious, either. It's mostly about power, money and thuggery.
Jan '11
Re: Great Game: Nice Play, Turkey
Sounds great - except it places the entire burden of compromise on Israel - as usual. I love these realpolitik solutions that are so easy to dream up. If Israel were to follow that recommendation it would establish a precedent, in stone, of how realpolitik thinking leads invariably to the "One party invariably concedes solution," and it'll always be Israel. Sure, it might lead to a peace of sorts, but eventually Israel will be gone.
Naive, in the extreme.
Mar '11
Re: Great Game: Nice Play, Turkey
Yup. In negotiations, the unreasonable party always wins.
Jul '10
Re: Great Game: Nice Play, Turkey
Viator: "... At the tribal court, the discussion is heated, but NOT ABOUT GUILT OR INNOCENCE. Through a complex network of tribal support, both sides know where they stand, now it is just a matter of agreeing the money. Eventually the price is knocked down to $4,000 and a woman, her value to be determined in later negotiations. For many Iraqis it's a system that works, and in a violent region recompense appears much more practical than locking someone away."
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3449869.stm
It's called appeasement in the West, the paying of wergild applies to distinct circumstances that do not pertain to the case presented. I have no problem that Iraqis use the term differently, just need that established to make sense of the rest. Thanks.
The United States pays all manner of bribes and petty appeasements under the table, federal law not withstanding. We would be unable to operate in much of the world otherwise.
Turkey does not represent a direct threat to Israel beyond the flotillas at the moment, and I cannot conceive of NATO, especially the US, Germany, and the UK, allowing Turkey to wage war on Israel.
Nov '10
Re: Great Game: Nice Play, Turkey
You're too deeply steeped in an Islamic culture to see straight on this Claire. The appeasement for blood with cash is essentially a sharia dictate, and would only be regarded as submission. What we must be careful about is emboldenment. Turkey should not be signaled that it is safe to move further and further into a hostile posture against Israel. They should understand the peril in this kind of gamesmanship.
Israel, as you appear to understand, cannot and should not be expected to, apologize for something in which they do not regard themselves as being at fault.
The Israeli government has always been quick to apologize when it appears that the IDF or government forces have violated rights or done unnecessary harm to innocents. Often they have had to walk back on apologies after finding themselves duped by Paliwood mock-ups of HR violations like fake soccer injuries. The world must not place the expectation upon Israel that they are responsible for appeasing every well-calculated Arab/Islamic diplomatic grievance. This is the road that led to the mess we have in Gaza, and it will ultimately lead to the erosion of the security of Israel.