"Great" Books that in Truth Are Tedious
Troy Senik's post on David Brooks's latest column got me thinking about The Great Gatsby. Okay, let me explain that.
Troy said Brooks had written a thoughtful and provocative piece, which of course he hadn't because he's David Brooks and is incapable of doing so. But this insistence by so many smart people that David Brooks is worth reading reminded me how everyone says The Great Gatsby is this fantastic novel. I read it in high school and thought it was dull and unenlightening. Then, in my late twenties, I thought, "Hey, everyone says it's great, and I was just an idiot high school kid, so maybe I was missing something." So I read it again, and it was still dull and unenlightening. My wife, who's a much more astute literary critic than I, had the exact same experience, which is one of the many reasons I love her. I mean, almost nothing happens (he hits someone with a car, right?) to people it's very hard to care about, and then . . . there's not even an "and then." That's it -- almost nothing happens to unsympathetic people. Oh, and there are fancy parties.
Anyway, any other nominations for supposedly great books that actually [edited]? (Can we say "[edited]" on Ricochet? I hope so.)
Editor's note: Ricochet seeks to return our standards of gentility to the year 1957. We therefore discourage the use of the edited word. When it doubt, ask "Would June Cleaver feel ill at ease were I to say this?" You may also ask whether you would use the phrase before the Queen Mother. No other member of the Royal Family may be used as a reliable guide, alas.
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Dec '10
Re: "Great" Books that in Truth Are Tedious
Joseph Stanko
I liked The Sun Also Rises, but TOMATS was just... boring. · Jun 29 at 5:33pm
I went to Mexico a few years back and took "The Sun Also Rises" with me to read on the beach.
I read it, and when I was done, I felt like hurling the book into the ocean (I didn't, because it was a hardback, but I really wanted to).
Everyone fawns over Hemmingway, but that book could just as easily have been about me and my circle of friends driving cross country to go watch a race, or to go play a paintball tournament, or anything. Change the names and you're there.
I expected a great or at least moving story, but what I got was a drunken semi-crippled WWI vet (following a woman he wanted to bed but was unable to), a woman who was divorced and unwilling (or unable to be faithful ever again), and a whiny jackass who none of them liked but who desperately wanted to BE liked, all three sticking together even though it made them all miserable, in order to watch a bull fight.
Call me uncouth, but I was unimpressed.
Edited on June 30, 2011 at 3:13amNov '10
Re: "Great" Books that in Truth Are Tedious
The Loneliness of the Long-Distance Runner
As a runner, I thought I would like it but it is philosophically dull.
Edited on June 30, 2011 at 3:23amSep '10
Re: "Great" Books that in Truth Are Tedious
katievs
Kenneth: I know this might sound archaic, but there are certain words that have entered into common lexicon that still make me wince.
"Suck" is one of them, along with scumbag. I hear those words on conservative talk radio all the time and think, "Um, don't you understand the origin of that word?" · Jun 29 at 5:26pm
I'm with you totally there, Kenneth. · Jun 29 at 5:29pm
I just got redacted on another thread for using it. My only defense is I've been hanging around too many teenagers during convocation week and I'd forgotten the origin of the word, though it did come back to me after the dental freezing wore off.
Dec '10
Re: "Great" Books that in Truth Are Tedious
Elizabeth Dunn
Mollie Hemingway, Ed.
I have noticed I'm one of the only people in my circle who doesn't recognize the genius of Zadie Smith ...
Mollie, This comment caught my attention as I have read two of Smith's books, White Teeth and On Beauty. I read them because she had received so much positive press, but was sincerely disappointed. I found them to be slightly exalted Oprah Book of the Month Club selections.
May I add a positive note...
One modern writer whom I admire greatly is Wallace Stegner. · Jun 29 at 5:24pm
Oh, Elizabeth! You're my new favorite person on Ricochet!! Stegner's Angle of Repose is one of my all time favorites.
Oct '10
Re: "Great" Books that in Truth Are Tedious
Kenneth: Anything by James Joyce.
Anything by Thomas Pynchon.
Anything by Alice Walker
Anything by Maya Angelou
Moby Dick · Jun 29 at 11:29am
Yes, Yes and Yes (skipping over Alice Walker whom I know nothing about). I never gave Joyce much of a chance, but life is short and I probably never will.
I have to disagree with Joseph Stanko over The Old Man and the Sea. It might verge on melodramatic for some people, but it is a simple, elemental story very well told. I'm happy that my two boys, 19 and 27, read it when they were young and have reread it multiple times. (I do concede that the arm wrestling incident is beyond the pale.)
I agree that Vonnegut, Toni Morrison, and Mailer are sub-par. I've only read White Teeth, but I thought Zadie Smith had a beautiful style with nothing to say. Exactly the opposite of Ayn Rand.
Jul '10
Re: "Great" Books that in Truth Are Tedious
dogsbody: I'm waiting for the hate mail after I make my nomination: Chaucer's Canterbury Tales. I know it's supposed to be one of the first great works in English, etc. I don't care. I've never thought it was worth more than 5 minutes of anyone's time, either in the original or in modern English. Go ahead, hate me. · Jun 29 at 4:44pm
What is excellent about Geoffrey Chaucer requires active scholarship and a powerful teacher to bring to life, along with a willingness to totally absorb the medieval Western world view from CS Lewis and others. (And Canterbury Tales is all about the plurality of world views.) I had three world class Chaucerians as resources in college and absorbed every drop over 12 semester hours. I just renewed my subscription to the Chaucer Review, which I manage to read 10-20% of.
If my exposure had left off in high school, we would be of one mind on this. I absolutely agree he is not for everybody.
Jun '10
Re: "Great" Books that in Truth Are Tedious
CoolHandI went to Mexico a few years back and took "The Sun Also Rises" with me to read on the beach.
I read it, and when I was done, I felt like hurling the book into the ocean (I didn't, because it was a hardback, but I really wanted to).
. . .
I expected a great or at least moving story, but what I got was a drunken semi-crippled WWI vet (following a woman he wanted to bed but was unable to), a woman who was divorced and unwilling (or unable to be faithful ever again), and a whiny jackass who none of them liked but who desperately wanted to BE liked, all three sticking together even though it made them all miserable, in order to watch a bull fight.
Call me uncouth, but I was unimpressed. · Jun 29 at 6:10pm
Totally agree. Every year I gain in age, the less I like Hemingway. Although I still like For Whom the Bell Tolls. Hemingway's politics were all wrong, but in some pieces of that novel the writing is superb.
May '11
Re: "Great" Books that in Truth Are Tedious
I made it thru about 20 pages of Naked Lunch. Didn't understand any of it. Does one have to smoke something illicit to understand that book?
Nov '10
Re: "Great" Books that in Truth Are Tedious
Western Chauvinist
Elizabeth Dunn
Mollie Hemingway, Ed.
I have noticed I'm one of the only people in my circle who doesn't recognize the genius of Zadie Smith ...
Mollie, This comment caught my attention as I have read two of Smith's books, White Teeth and On Beauty. I read them because she had received so much positive press, but was sincerely disappointed. I found them to be slightly exalted Oprah Book of the Month Club selections.
May I add a positive note...
One modern writer whom I admire greatly is Wallace Stegner. · Jun 29 at 5:24pm
Oh, Elizabeth! You're my new favorite person on Ricochet!! Stegner's Angle of Repose is one of my all time favorites. · Jun 29 at 6:16pm
Crazy as this sounds, I loved Crossing To Safety even more!
Jun '11
Re: "Great" Books that in Truth Are Tedious
The Brothers Karamazov
Chuck Colson, who I thought at the time was a good writer (later found out his good stuff was all ghost written), kept mentioning the Brothers until I felt I had to read it. I managed to finish it but I found it a chore.
Sep '10
Re: "Great" Books that in Truth Are Tedious
Sisyphus
What is excellent about Geoffrey Chaucer requires active scholarship and a powerful teacher to bring to life, along with a willingness to totally absorb the medieval Western world view from CS Lewis and others. (And Canterbury Tales is all about the plurality of world views.) · Jun 29 at 6:17pm
It's odd--I've read C.S. Lewis' The Discarded Image (which I loved) and part of his Allegory of Love, and I love The Lord of the Rings, which is in passing a very good introduction to the medieval Western world view. I took a course in Anglo-Saxon poetry and read The Dream of the Rood, The Ruin, portions of The Anglo-Saxon Chronicles and others. But between 1066 and 1500 it all seems to go downhill for me. I've never been able to read Chaucer for more than 5 minutes without feeling cheated.
Edited on June 30, 2011 at 3:48amRe: "Great" Books that in Truth Are Tedious
I love "Gatsby," but "Appointment is Samarra" is the better 1920s novel. Not as lyrical, but more grown-up. "Gatsby" is full of children.
Dec '10
Re: "Great" Books that in Truth Are Tedious
tabula rasa
CoolHandI went to Mexico a few years back and took "The Sun Also Rises" with me to read on the beach.
I read it, and when I was done, I felt like hurling the book into the ocean (I didn't, because it was a hardback, but I really wanted to).
Totally agree. Every year I gain in age, the less I like Hemingway. Although I still like For Whom the Bell Tolls. Hemingway's politics were all wrong, but in some pieces of that novel the writing is superb. · Jun 29 at 6:20pm
What a relief. I was afraid to bring it up for the slings and arrows I might suffer. I just never enjoyed a novel or a movie in which the characters were so unlikable and unsympathetic. Never finished The Sun for that reason.
Mar '11
Re: "Great" Books that in Truth Are Tedious
Worst book I ever read. It's written in a stream-of-consciousness style, with characters appearing without introduction and disappearing a few pages later; settings changing, dream-like, without explanation; and not much tying it all together. The author has a fascination with murdering young boys by hanging, while simultaneously using them in other ways. It turned my stomach.
Sep '10
Re: "Great" Books that in Truth Are Tedious
One-Eyed Jack: The Brothers Karamazov
Chuck Colson, who I thought at the time was a good writer (later found out his good stuff was all ghost written), kept mentioning the Brothers until I felt I had to read it. I managed to finish it but I found it a chore. · Jun 29 at 6:43pm
Which translation? Did you read the Richard Pevear version?
Mar '11
Re: "Great" Books that in Truth Are Tedious
I also hated Finnegan's Wake. I understand it's supposed to be full of puns and wordplay, but after the first 10 pages I had no idea what I had just read. So I started over, and still didn't get it. It's incomprehensible gibberish.
Dec '10
Re: "Great" Books that in Truth Are Tedious
I'm surprised by the negative Ricochet critiques of Moby Dick. I've read so many paeans to the Great American Novel, if not The Greatest. Always felt like an illiterate because I haven't read it.
I read so little fiction these days, other than children's books to my kids, I'm wondering what Ricochet members would recommend as "must reads" for the great American novel, great English-language novel or great English translation novel. Any suggestions?
I went through a phase where I tried to read at least one contemporary Pulitzer winner each summer. Any opinions on All the Pretty Horses or Love in the Time of Cholera? Neither did much for me. Apparently my phase lasted two summers.
Jul '10
Re: "Great" Books that in Truth Are Tedious
Western Chauvinist: I
I'm wondering what Ricochet members would recommend as "must reads" for the great American novel, great English-language novel or great English translation novel. Any suggestions?
The great American novel: A Soldier of the Great War.
The great novel not written by an American: The Growth of the Soil.
Aug '10
Re: "Great" Books that in Truth Are Tedious
At 17 , in American Novel class, I was bored to tears by Theodore Dreiser's Sister Carrie. And I couldn't understand why we wouldn't be reading All The King's Men (by Robert Penn Warren). I loved that book.
Nov '10
Re: "Great" Books that in Truth Are Tedious
Please don't bring up this gobbledygook excuse for a novel ! :-)
I had to write a term paper on FW during my sophomore year in college and have yet to recover from the trauma....