In “A Free Speech Year at the Court,” an article in First Things, legal scholar Michael McConnell discusses the decision in Snyder v Phelps. Apparently to protest tolerance toward homosexuality, especially in the military, members of a Kansas group had picketed at the funerals of servicemen, displaying signs such as “God Hates Fags” and “God Hates the USA.” Albert Snyder, whose son died in Iraq, sued the group for inflicting emotional distress, winning a judgement of several million dollars. By a vote of 8 to 1, the Supreme Court reversed the judgement, insisting that the First Amendment protected the picketers.
On this Constitution Day--and thanks for reminding us, Terence--an excerpt from Judge McConnell’s article:
“Outrageousness,” the Court explained, “is a highly malleable standard with ‘an inherent subjectiveness about it which would allow a jury to impose liability on the basis of the jurors’ tastes or views, or perhaps ont eh basis of their dislike of a particular expression.’”
Legal experts and media editorialists almost uniformly proclaime the Snyder decision a great victory fo the American constitutional commitment to robust deate, and so it was. The case should remind Americans just how exception that commitment is. In most Western democracies, speech of the sort at issue in the Snyder case would br subject not just to civili damages but to official prosecution. In Canada, a youth pasto was prosecuted and fined for writing a letter to the editor criticizing homosexuality; in Holland a parliamentarian was presecuted (though ultimately acquitted) for criticizing Islam; in Sweden a minister was sentenced to a month in prison for preaching against homosexual conduct….
Hateful though the demonstrators’ speech was in Snyder, we should be grateful that our courts are standing up against the international trend toward punishing speech on the ground that it is offensive to protected minority groups. This is part of what makes America unique.
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Comments :
Oct '10
Re: God Bless the Constitution, Or There's a Reason Adam's "Stupid Girl" Story Happened in Canada
It would be a good thing if the issue of speech did not ever cross the boundary into the land of actual offense against moral standards.
It would be easier to accept this decision IF we did not also punish any person who protested the murder of living human babies at abortions clinics.
I DO NOT AGREE WITH THE PHONY AND SELECTIVE FIRST AMENDMENT PROTECTIONS THAT THIS DECISION REPRESENTS.
Get real... this is a travesty.
Jul '10
Re: God Bless the Constitution, Or There's a Reason Adam's "Stupid Girl" Story Happened in Canada
raycon: It would be a good thing if the issue of speech did not ever cross the boundary into the land of actual offense against moral standards.
It would be easier to accept this decision IF we did not also punish any person who protested the murder of living human babies at abortions clinics.
I DO NOT AGREE WITH THE PHONY AND SELECTIVE FIRST AMENDMENT PROTECTIONS THAT THIS DECISION REPRESENTS.
You know Raycon, I think that you're mistaken. That is, I believe the execrable Phelps and his despicable minions are being held to similar standards of distance/access. Though I could be wrong.
Edited on Sep 17, 2011 at 8:01pmJun '10
Re: God Bless the Constitution, Or There's a Reason Adam's "Stupid Girl" Story Happened in Canada
Perhaps there should be a law against indiscretion? Take the word niggardly meaning not generous. You might use the word at home, even at the office, but it would be an indiscretion to use the word if your audience were African or African-American. If found guilty of an indiscretion the fine would be a maximum of, say, two dollars. The point being that execrable beings such as Phelps, after being ticketed or issued with a summons, would have to move along to a location where their exercise of free speech would not constitute an indiscretion. I would not normally write in favour of yet another stupid law, especially one that attacks the foundation of free speech, but let's face it, some people can be extremely offensive in delicate circumstances and all we want to do is empower someone in authority to move them along.
Mar '11
Re: God Bless the Constitution, Or There's a Reason Adam's "Stupid Girl" Story Happened in Canada
I personally think that this decision completely misses the mark.
It is completely irrelevant what the content of the speech was, except for one aspect: it was intended to egregiously offend and disturb, at a funeral. A military funeral.
What ever happened to common sense? Freedom of speech was never intended to allow people to trample basic human dignity.
The crazies who want to protest homosexuality may have a right to do so, but it does not extend to abusive behavior at a funeral. Skokie was wrong, and so is this. There are places and circumstances in which common sense dictates the preference of decorum and mutual respect for fellow citizens, over abstract principles taken to their extremes.
Jan '11
Re: God Bless the Constitution, Or There's a Reason Adam's "Stupid Girl" Story Happened in Canada
There are some things that just defy legislation. I've had arguments with friends on the left and the right about freedom of speech. So much of what I think can't be legislated. For example, I could walk up to an elderly woman and say "You're old and ugly and you will die soon". It may be true, and it would be absolutely horrific to say, but it shouldn't be illegal. (Yeah, I'm looking at you Phelps)
Similarly, if someone walked up to me and said "I hate people of Norwegian ancestry who are born Lutheran", I would not like them to be charged with a hate crime. I would find them boring and uninteresting.
I understand the cultural sensitivity of some who have experienced historical tragedies, believe me.
But we live in the here and now; history is to be remembered, not to be used as a future bargaining chip IMHO. If things are wrong in the here and now, then let's have it out with a competition of ideas.
If I was smart, I would trademark the phrase "Let Ideas Compete"
Jan '11
Re: God Bless the Constitution, Or There's a Reason Adam's "Stupid Girl" Story Happened in Canada
Not an example of freedom of speech, but a snapshot of how Canada has jumped the shark:
http://www.canada.com/business/French+language+crusader+pops+Canada/5098531/story.html
Dec '10
Re: God Bless the Constitution, Or There's a Reason Adam's "Stupid Girl" Story Happened in Canada
That is far too subjective a standard. You have a point about abortion protestors, but that only means that they should be left alone too.
raycon:
I DO NOT AGREE WITH THE PHONY AND SELECTIVE FIRST AMENDMENT PROTECTIONS THAT THIS DECISION REPRESENTS. · Sep 17 at 7:41pm
Stop shouting. It is rude.
Feb '11
Re: God Bless the Constitution, Or There's a Reason Adam's "Stupid Girl" Story Happened in Canada
Why? Surely you are not among those who think African-Americans are by and large too ignorant to know the difference!
Aug '10
Re: God Bless the Constitution, Or There's a Reason Adam's "Stupid Girl" Story Happened in Canada
Mr. Snyder desired to bury his son in peace.
The Phelps Clan used the younger Snyder's burial as a backdrop to promote themselves - impacting Mr. Snyder's right to bury his son in peace (very eloquently described by Justice Alito in his dissent)
Mr. Snyder, rather than take the law into his own hands, sued Mr. Phelps for impacting his property right. (2 private citizens going to the court to hash out who owes whom what or nothing at all)
The US Supreme Court (with the exception of Justice Alito) saw this as a much wider case and sided with the poor oppressed Phelpses in their quest to publicly throw temper tantrums.
In Mississippi, following the execrable Snyder v. Phelps decision, actual members of the public (as well as public servants), took the law into their own hands to prevent the Phelps' clan from capitalizing on another military funeral - completely disrupting their plans and even 'running them out of town' (in violation of one of them undefined Privileges and Immunity thingys) But hey, win some - lose some I guess.
I call that justice.
<Shout out to Raycon: you go brother - I am right there with you!>
Aug '10
Re: God Bless the Constitution, Or There's a Reason Adam's "Stupid Girl" Story Happened in Canada
To Peter Robinson: Please explain how the US Constitution prohibits a student on a US university campus from merely making stupid demands?
After all, no state actions have been taken in the "stupid girl" case.
This is an example of the influence of the PC thought-police on all western university campuses, but unless the Canadian government gets involved it says nothing about Canadian values or the US Constitution.
I'm disappointed that Peter would imply that this sort of incident could never happen on a US campus. There's no reason it couldn't.
CANADIAN CHARTER OF RIGHTS AND FREEDOMS
2. Everyone has the following fundamental freedoms:
(a) freedom of conscience and religion;
(b) freedom of thought, belief, opinion and expression, including freedom of the press and other media of communication;
(c) freedom of peaceful assembly; and
(d) freedom of association.
As Canada's excremental "Human Rights Commissions" show, a constitution guarantees nothing if judges choose not to defend it.
Edited on Sep 18, 2011 at 9:08amJun '10
Re: God Bless the Constitution, Or There's a Reason Adam's "Stupid Girl" Story Happened in Canada
Israel P.
Why? Surely you are not among those who think African-Americans are by and large too ignorant to know the difference! · Sep 18 at 3:11am
Absolutely not!! A word has literal meanings and can be used to connote, suggest, or imply a meaning that it does not literally mean. To deny this is to be particularly ignorant/uninformed/naive (pick the word that rankles least or most, I don't care) with regard to the nature of advertising.
Take for example the works black and negro, Jew and Jewish, discrimination and apartheid. We're all smart enough to know the literal meanings of the words, care to discuss the connotations? But first let's make sure the discussion contains no Code of Conduct violations.
Lastly, next time a wife or friend serves you something you don't like I would recommend you use the word crap and garbage in your demur, and see how far you get.
Jun '10
Re: God Bless the Constitution, Or There's a Reason Adam's "Stupid Girl" Story Happened in Canada
It just occurred to me that this is a speech writin' crowd, both Peter Robinson and Troy Senik have put words in president's mouths. So let's ask them it they would use the word "niggardly" when writing a speech that is destined to be delivered by a US president in Harlem? According to you, Israel P., the word is perfectly acceptable and we don't want to consider the prospective audience "largely too ignorant to know the difference" between bigotry and English, do we?
If Peter or Troy write below that they would willingly use the word in proper context and before this prospective audience, I will accept your contention that I am wrong and declare myself an idiot. Peter, Troy?
Aug '10
Re: God Bless the Constitution, Or There's a Reason Adam's "Stupid Girl" Story Happened in Canada
Cas Balicki: It just occurred to me that this is a speech writin' crowd, both Peter Robinson and Troy Senik have put words in president's mouths. So let's ask them it they would use the word "niggardly" when writing a speech that is destined to be delivered by a US president in Harlem? According to you, Israel P., the word is perfectly acceptable and we don't want to consider the prospective audience "largely too ignorant to know the difference" between bigotry and English, do we?
If Peter or Troy write below that they would willingly use the word in proper context and before this prospective audience, I will accept your contention that I am wrong and declare myself an idiot. Peter, Troy? · Sep 18 at 11:46am
Cas, in support of yor position, I offer this piece from the DallasNews.com - it seems that certain Dallas County Commissioners determined that "Black Hole" was racially insensitive and were bound and determined to be offended by it.
Israel P. there is a youtube video as well, where at time :20, one of the commissioners demands an apology for the term in the name of diversity.
Apr '11
Re: God Bless the Constitution, Or There's a Reason Adam's "Stupid Girl" Story Happened in Canada
Misthiocracy:
CANADIAN CHARTER OF RIGHTS AND FREEDOMS
[...]
As Canada's excremental "Human Rights Commissions" show, a constitution guarantees nothing if judges choose not to defend it. · Sep 18 8:48am
Yeah, it's not just Canada. Look at the English 1689 Bill of Rights and its protection of the right to bear arms, on which the US Bill of Rights and Second Amendment were based. There's a European Convention on Human Rights that has a Bill of Rights like function for essentially everyone in Europe, not just the EU, stretching from Kazakhstan to Portugal, that regularly imposes big decisions on the UK (particularly on immigration, but also on, eg., prisoners' right to vote). Neither of these, nor any number of other protections (eg. the UN's Universal Declaration of Human Rights) fully protect speech, no matter how plain their language (which is generally clearer than the First Amendment).
The greatest Constitution on earth and the genius of the Founding Fathers were essential to making America today, but not sufficient. America wouldn't be America without many millions more Americans, and no other country has a sufficient number of Americans to really stay true.
Re: God Bless the Constitution, Or There's a Reason Adam's "Stupid Girl" Story Happened in Canada
Cas ~
No, I would not use the word in a speech like that. The issue with a black audience is not that they're less likely to know it, it's that they're more likely to take offense (however misguided) at its use. "Niggardly" is an esoteric piece of diction that most folks aren't going to recognize. Those who communicate for a living have to remember that there's something of a market at play: a speech full of great ideas, written or delivered in a fashion that won't make sense to the audience, may as well not be given in the first place.
May '10
Re: God Bless the Constitution, Or There's a Reason Adam's "Stupid Girl" Story Happened in Canada
Plus, there's the practical problem that the word my be sincerely misheard -- or worse, misspoken, which would be a particular problem for someone like Peter, who has had to write speeches for malaproprism-prone politicians like George H.W. Bush.
Save "niggardly" for private conversations among friends.