Gays, Catholics, Mormons, Evangelicals
When Mitch Daniels, the governor of Indiana and Ricochet stalwart talked about calling a "truce on so-called social issues" a few years ago, he got into a bit of trouble. There was push-back from social conservatives, naturally.
I agreed with him then, and I agree with him now. And it's hard to see this Republican convention -- despite media shrieks that the Republican party is "divided" and "fractured" -- as anything but unified.
Item one: a pretty funny joke by the leader of the gay Republican group, GOProud. From Politico:
For those who think gay and lesbian voters can be considered a one-issue electorate, picking a president mainly on his stance on same-sex marriage, GOProud co-founder and Executive Director Jimmy LaSalvia has a catchy response.
“As most of you know I support civil marriage for gay couples,” LaSalvia told the crowd.“And marriage is important. But before you get married, you need a date, and everybody knows you can’t get a date without a job.”
Item two: Mike Huckabee's speech last night. It's simply astounding -- wonderfully so -- that a true believing Evangelical could issue such a full-throated endorsement of a Mormon candidate. Especially surprising when it's noted that this is the first presidential ticket in....forever that doesn't have at least one candidate from a mainstream Protestant denomination.
It's easier to make a truce, I guess, when you've got bigger fish to fry.
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Dec '11
Re: Gays, Catholics, Mormons, Evangelicals
But before you get married, you need a date, and everybody knows you can’t get a date without a job.
My thoughts exactly. I would add that Paul Ryan's claim that "the best kind of preaching is done by example" was one of the most unifying comments made at the convention thus far.
Edited on August 30, 2012 at 11:53pmMay '11
Re: Gays, Catholics, Mormons, Evangelicals
I have said this to my Catholic friends; that right now we are, as Christians, in the minority opinion and attacked regardless of denominational affiliation. It's one thing to argue over beers in my kitchen, but when it comes to the rest of the world, I'd rather stand together than let something like trans-substantiation keep us apart.
I feel the same way about the larger umbrella conservative camp. Our points of departure from one another are certainly minor compared to the liberal bloc. Save those for the pages of ricochet. I'll argue against someone here until we're both blue in the face, but when we're standing together at the polls, I'd like to think that there is a great deal of camaraderie as we're both facing a threat much larger than our disagreements.
Edited on August 30, 2012 at 11:38pmMar '11
Re: Gays, Catholics, Mormons, Evangelicals
I've been meaning to write a separate post about this for a while... I am always fascinated by the persistence single-issue voters. We have them on the right, they have them on the left. I believe that these people are doing a civic disservice. Dang right -- who cares if gays can marry if the economy is in the tank, the government is bankrupt, and our national security is threatened? Enjoy your gay marriage, if you can afford it!
The ability to see the big picture and not get lost in the weeds is a sign of seriousness, and maturity.
Aug '10
Re: Gays, Catholics, Mormons, Evangelicals
I guess it really is true - Obama is the Great Uniter.
Oct '10
Re: Gays, Catholics, Mormons, Evangelicals
It's not likely that us social conservatives will let go of these issues, but you are correct that at the moment there is the overriding issue of the O. Apart from abortion, where we already have a presidential and vice presidential candidate who are already solid, most of the other social issues flow from that. There is little to be gained by making much noise during the campaign.
Rob, I do not agree with you on the importance of those issues, but there is little question you are right regarding the election.
Nov '10
Re: Gays, Catholics, Mormons, Evangelicals
The only place I see the conservative (well...Republican) movement "fractured" at the moment is over calls for more prominence to the Libertarians, and some of their outrageous tactics at the convention and the electoral processes in general. They are the loud uncle in the family who comes to family reunions, smokes pot by the backyard pool and gets drunk before dinner . But we all love them anyway because they are family, and that's what families do.
Besides, in our heart of hearts, we embrace about 90% of what they believe in, and know that they embrace about 70% of what we believe in (which is why they're at our family reunions instead of the "other guys").
This round of elections hasn't revolved around issues of importance to them, and so they're looking simply to shore up influence. So they're overplaying the respectability Ron Paul has provided and embarrassing more serious fellow Libertarians.
One way to calm these folks down: throw them some red meat -- Why not make National Right to Work legislation an issue this year? Can't lose on that one. And there is enough support that it would be a unifying issue.
Jun '12
Re: Gays, Catholics, Mormons, Evangelicals
The main thing is to keep the main thing The Main Thing.
The main thing is to get O out of office.
Oct '10
Re: Gays, Catholics, Mormons, Evangelicals
raycon: It's not likely that us social conservatives will let go of these issues, but you are correct that at the moment there is the overriding issue of the O. Apart from abortion, where we already have a presidential and vice presidential candidate who are already solid, most of the other social issues flow from that. There is little to be gained by making much noise during the campaign.
Rob, I do not agree with you on the importance of those issues, but there is little question you are right regarding the election. · 0 minutes ago
Oh I don't know. I think with enough engagement, we could evolve a properly right-wing form of gay rights--my dream fantasy is a gay marriage package with strict monogamy requirements and a repeal of no-fault divorce; one of my favorite pastimes is forcing liberals to admit they would never support such a thing. And there's abortion; that's going to become a huge issue for gays in the near future (especially for bisexuals, which seems more genetic than exclusive homosexuality and thus easier to test genetically).
Edited on August 30, 2012 at 11:59pmApr '12
Re: Gays, Catholics, Mormons, Evangelicals
I do prefer to seperate Church from State.
Social issues can be taken up by many stakeholders but the world does change. For example, my son visited a university last week which is changing its main symbol from a crest created for the Duke of Wellington to a more modern letter of the alphabet. It looks great. Sure, it is sad to see the English roots go but this is a global university now. The crest still gets used but no longer front center. As I looked at the students, they were from around the world, bright and keen and what a pleasure to have them as the next generation. If those crests were meant to stay, then alumni and the board would have kept them but the school is reaching out for students from around the world.
Social issues are important but the big challenge will be how much people are left to make their own decisions and how much government makes laws. Technology, the Internet, will mean more discussion, more debate and more awareness. Look at how MSM has been changed by the Internet.
As Ann Romney said, Let's talk about love. Social issues will need love.
Aug '10
Re: Gays, Catholics, Mormons, Evangelicals
And who do we make this deal with ?
Maybe a short list of trustworthy opponents ?
Will those opponents be politicians , academics , media types , or just candidates who agree not to consult with their politicians , academics and media type advisors ?
politics are religions these days
Jan '11
Re: Gays, Catholics, Mormons, Evangelicals
I'll say the obligatory (yet still true) comment that just as differences among Republicans shouldn't tear us apart, neither should differences tear us apart as Americans, or as Catholics, in fact as humans. It's an obvious comment but needs to be made all the same.
Almost all of us, I'm sure, have family members or good friends who are liberal. And we hash out some spirited arguments without losing those bonds. There's no reason why we can't make those distinctions with others.
Jesus was the ultimate man of peace, nevertheless, he had some terrific arguments with people.
Jun '10
Re: Gays, Catholics, Mormons, Evangelicals
Rob Long:
It's simply astounding -- wonderfully so -- that a true believing Evangelical could issue such a full-throated endorsement of a Mormon candidate. Especially surprising when it's noted that this is the first presidential ticket in....forever that doesn't have at least one candidate from a mainstream Protestant denomination.
It's easier to make a truce, I guess, when you've got bigger fish to fry.
I don't see this second item as evidence of a "truce on social issues," if anything it's the reverse: the social issues have brought Evangelicals, Mormons, and Catholics together as never before.
We still disagree on points of theology, but we're basically in agreement on the major social issues, and that has brought us together under one unified political coalition. I have more in common with Mitt Romney on the social issues than I do with most liberal Catholics.
Nov '11
Re: Gays, Catholics, Mormons, Evangelicals
"...and each in their proper order..." [1 Cor. 15:23]. First, send O packing, continue praying and leading by example. Then, go at the framing of unlimited abortion and/or same-sex marriage as civil-rights issues; erroneously so, imo. First things first - O must go (and take his divisive, derisive rhetoric/points of view with him.)
Jul '10
Re: Gays, Catholics, Mormons, Evangelicals
We definitely have much worse things to worry about at the moment, I think that's maybe the only good thing to come out of the Great Recession--most of us realize that now. Personally, I'm drawn to Mitt because the Mormons I know--and lemme tell ya, in musical theatre, they're legion--are some of the most genuinely compassionate people I've ever met. Mitt's been accused of flip-flopping but I prefer to see it as simply a willingness to reconsider his viewpoint when necessary, something we should all want in a president.
Plus, he's got 18 grand-kids, he's bound to win the gay lotto sooner or later and a gay grandson was all it took for Barry Goldwater himself to come around on marriage and military service...I'll take my chances with Mitt. I suspect Barack only likes the gays when we're writing checks, and the polls indicating that at least 23% of gay voters are voting Republican this year make me think I'm alone there.
Jun '10
Re: Gays, Catholics, Mormons, Evangelicals
What Jews and Catholics have in common is, we don't have to go beyond our coreligionists, or house of worship, to get a good knock-down drag-out argument started. Even about the most basic things. Certainly about politics.
Mar '11
Re: Gays, Catholics, Mormons, Evangelicals
Social issues are accelerating in the GOP, not regressing. That doesn't mean that the economy isn't the most pressing point right now... it is... but the GOP can walk and chew gum at the same time, Rob. I take it that you haven't noticed that the most conservative party platform in the history of the party was adopted just days ago?
Daniels was wrong then, and he's wrong now. Voters are not repelled by social issues, they just have a hierarchy of importance with the issues. Just because they want the economy to improve doesn't mean that they also want legalization of drugs or that they're not disgusted by what they see on TV. If Daniels was right, then the whole Sandra Fluke issue should have been a huge winner for liberals. But most evidence seems to point in the opposite direction.
There IS no separating social issues from fiscal issues. They're directly related. Rot of the social fabric is a prime mover in the growth of the Leviathan state.
Oct '10
Re: Gays, Catholics, Mormons, Evangelicals
I sometimes feel like asking gay couples who support Obama just how safe they would be in countries with widespread unemployment, no rule of law, and weak national defense. Whom would the rabblement select as their scapegoat? I wonder ...
May '10
Re: Gays, Catholics, Mormons, Evangelicals
And yet it is apparently necessary to tell hispanics they are special... in Spanish.
Jun '12
Re: Gays, Catholics, Mormons, Evangelicals
R. Craigen: The only place I see the conservative (well...Republican) movement "fractured" at the moment is over calls for more prominence to the Libertarians, and some of their outrageous tactics at the convention and the electoral processes in general.
One way to calm these folks down: throw them some red meat -- Why not make National Right to Work legislation an issue this year? Can't lose on that one. And there is enough support that it would be a unifying issue. · 2 hours ago
It is outrageous. Actually showing up at Caucuses, becoming delegates to the county, district and state conventions. Totally bonkers. What were they thinking? Stupid.
Yeah, let's throw them some red meat . . .
You might consider a little more respect and a bit less condescension.
And yes, I could just ignore it, but one core belief we should share is the Rule of Law. That simply means the rules should apply equally to everyone, even the "loud uncle." If the Rule of Law is the 10% we disagree on, there is a huge problem.
If we fault Obama for ignoring the Rule of Law, how can it be OK to do it to each other?
Re: Gays, Catholics, Mormons, Evangelicals
I agree with you -- and I think Daniels would, too. No one is suggesting that the social issues be abandoned. Daniels meant -- and I think this convention followed his instincts -- that it's important to speak to voters' "hierarchy" of concerns. And when those are jobs, the economy, and the future, it's best to really focus on those. For now.
It's not zero sum.