Gary Hart's Continued Monkey Business
Have you been following the sad case of Youcef Nadarkhani? He converted from Islam to Christianity, a crime punishable by death in Iran. Various human rights groups have gotten involved and even the Obama administration has condemned the death sentence.
Former Sen. Gary Hart, of my home state of Colorado, has written an extraordinary op-ed piece: "The Plight of Youcef Nadarkhani." starts off great but then takes a strange turn.
There are reports that an Iranian Christian pastor, Youcef Nadarkhani, is under threat of execution by the Iranian authorities for blasphemy for his refusal to renounce his Christian faith. Though there are reports of persecution of Christians in many countries, China included, it usually takes the plight of a single identifiable individual to make an otherwise generalized problem -- in this case religious intolerance -- take concrete rather than abstract dimensions.
The re-emergence of the religious right in America during this current presidential campaign, though mild by comparison to threatened executions by radical clerics, should give us cause for concern. Though well over two centuries ago, "witches" were burned in this country and a recent book documents the struggles of Roger Williams against fundamentalist intolerance. The persistent thread of intolerance springs from a narrow fundamentalist insistence on orthodoxy in an age in which strict religious doctrine in some quarters quickly emerged to fill the vacuum of failed 20th century political ideologies. And religious orthodoxy exhibits an almost demented insistence on conformity and intolerance toward political dissent.
And it continues in that vein. Religious conservatives in America are the worst! Not quite so bad as the Iranian mullahs but close.
I get that Gary Hart is still upset about Monkey Business (and losing Donna Rice, the woman he was cheating on his wife with, to Christianity). But now it looks like he's had a complete break with reality.
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Jun '10
Re: Gary Hart's Continued Monkey Business
If Hart doesn't like Christians running things, he should try Sharia in Iran, or try the atheist model. North Korea comes to mind. I urge him to experiment, and report back.
Feb '11
Re: Gary Hart's Continued Monkey Business
Please, no witches were ever burned in the colonies. They were hung. Can we at least get our facts straight when making mendacious, outrageous claims, and wallowing in hyperbole.
Edited on February 28, 2012 at 3:30pmJun '11
Re: Gary Hart's Continued Monkey Business
I think this definition captures it nicely:
"A non sequitur ( /ˌnɒnˈsɛkwɨtər/; Latin for It does not follow) is a conversational and literary device, often used for comedic purposes. It is a comment that, because of its apparent lack of meaning relative to what preceded it, it seems absurd to the point of being humorous or confusing."
Maybe Crazy Gary was just trying to be funny.
Oct '10
Re: Gary Hart's Continued Monkey Business
It was over three centuries ago, hence it was not really 'this country', now, was it? I suppose to a leftist, since the Constitution can mean whatever they want it to mean, the fact that the witch trials occurred before the Constitution was written doesn't really mean anything.
I guess the fact that political ideologies have basically filled the void created by the loss of religious faith never occurs to a leftist? Does a leftist not see the demented insistence on conformity within their own ranks?
Feb '11
Re: Gary Hart's Continued Monkey Business
Does anyone anywhere really care what Gary Hart thinks about anything? The Huffers were scraping the bottom of the barrel when they resurrected that dusty relic a few years back. Who will they drag out next, Mike Dukakis?
Re: Gary Hart's Continued Monkey Business
As it happens, I know Gary Hart. We spent a very pleasant weekend together in Rome a couple of years ago. He is a thoughtful man -- who is sometimes blinded by partisan prejudice. One would have to be a resolutely blind left-liberal not to roll one's eyes at the turn his argument takes.
Feb '11
Re: Gary Hart's Continued Monkey Business
I'm not surprised. Most of my left oriented acquaintances are quite pleasant people - when they aren't talking about politics which, unfortunately, is not often enough.
My point, however, was that too many politicians have the same problem that afflicts athletes and opera singers, among others, who have attained some level of stardom. Too many don't know when to quit. Instead of Vickers, retiring with grace and dignity not far past his peak, we get Pavarottis and Scottos making ever more grotesque spectacles of their decline. Better a politician emulating George H W Bush or Gerald Ford than Jimmy Carter. Hart has had his day. It is time to move on.
Edited on February 28, 2012 at 5:20pmOct '10
Re: Gary Hart's Continued Monkey Business
Why are urban elites all like this? I find it frankly offensive. My ancestors had to sail around the tip of South America and up to California (they then settled San Francisco, a decision many of us now regret), in a long, nasty trip (this is back in the days of wooden sailing ships), to escape religious persecution.
To suggest that American Christians have the same sectarian cleansing instinct today is absurd, and frankly devalues what some of our ancestors did go through. I mean, come on Gary, Mitt Romney might win the Republican nomination.
Edited on February 28, 2012 at 4:15pmRe: Gary Hart's Continued Monkey Business
Joseph Eagar: Why are urban elites all like this? I find it frankly offensive. My ancestors had to sail around the tip of South America and up to California (they then settled San Francisco, a decision many of us now regret), in a long, nasty trip (this is back in the days of wooden sailing ships), to escape religious persecution.
To suggest that American Christians have the same sectarian cleansing instinct today is absurd, and frankly devalues what some of our ancestors did go through. I mean, come on Gary, Mitt Romney might win the Republican nomination. · 3 minutes ago
Edited 2 minutes ago
. . . and he might win the Presidency as well. As far as I can see, the America that we now live in could elect a Mormon President or a Jewish President without it being a shock to anyone.
Jun '10
Re: Gary Hart's Continued Monkey Business
Substitute "politically correct ideology" for "religious orthodoxy" and you can see how the left always reveals itself through projection.
Sep '10
Re: Gary Hart's Continued Monkey Business
As a Catholic, I'm proud of our past. At the time we were running the Inquisition, engaging in Crusades and otherwise tormenting heretics, we were #1. Hanging, burning, beheading, we had it all. All that professional pride, however, is just a fond memory. When it comes to pure religious intolerance and industrial persecution, no one and I mean no one can come close to the atheists.
Where we held kangaroo courts and persecuted individuals, they rounded up whole villages and shot them. Where we engaged in focused wars against the infidel, they practiced global slaughter. Where we forced people to pay for their sins with gold, they simply enslaved hundreds of millions of people for generations. We could add several zeroes to the end of our stats and still not be on the same level as the atheists.
It's like comparing George Halas' Bears with the Tom Coughlin's New York Giants. If those two teams played today, the Giants' final score would look like a pinball game.
Give credit where credit is due. As much as I love the Holy Church, the baton has been passed.
I tip my cap to the atheists and so should Gary.
Jun '10
Re: Gary Hart's Continued Monkey Business
Ah, the "intolerance" meme. There's nothing quite like left-wing intolerance. See, e.g., Mark Steyn's lead story in the paper version of the National Review. Pastor and newspaper in Canada fined $9000 for printing an ad whose entire contents read:
Re: Gary Hart's Continued Monkey Business
~Paules
Substitute "politically correct ideology" for "religious orthodoxy" and you can see how the left always reveals itself through projection. · 8 minutes ago
Elegantly put.
May '11
Re: Gary Hart's Continued Monkey Business
K T Cat: As a Catholic, I'm proud of our past. At the time we were running the Inquisition, engaging in Crusades and otherwise tormenting heretics, we were #1. Hanging, burning, beheading, we had it all. All that professional pride, however, is just a fond memory. When it comes to pure religious intolerance and industrial persecution, no one and I meanno one can come close to the atheists.
Where we held kangaroo courts and persecuted individuals, they rounded up whole villages and shot them. Where we engaged in focused wars against the infidel, they practiced global slaughter. Where we forced people to pay for their sins with gold, they simply enslaved hundreds of millions of people for generations. We could add several zeroes to the end of our stats and still not be on the same level as the atheists.
I tip my cap to the atheists and so should Gary. · 1 minute ago
If you throw in not providing contraception for women I'd say you're pretty close to being as oppressive as the atheist regimes. If we elect Santorum the Catholic Church will once again take the title as most oppressive.
Edited on February 28, 2012 at 4:48pmSep '10
Re: Gary Hart's Continued Monkey Business
Paul A. Rahe
~Paules
Substitute "politically correct ideology" for "religious orthodoxy" and you can see how the left always reveals itself through projection. · 8 minutes ago
Elegantly put. · 4 minutes ago
This was a large part of the thesis of Jonah Goldberg's Liberal Fascism.
Sep '10
Re: Gary Hart's Continued Monkey Business
thelonious
K T Cat: As a Catholic, I'm proud of our past. At the time we were running the Inquisition, engaging in Crusades and otherwise tormenting heretics, we were #1. Hanging, burning, beheading, we had it all. All that professional pride, however, is just a fond memory. When it comes to pure religious intolerance and industrial persecution, no one and I meanno one can come close to the atheists.
I tip my cap to the atheists and so should Gary. · 1 minute ago
If you throw in not providing contraception for women I'd say you're pretty close to being as oppressive as the atheist regimes. If we elect Santorum the Catholic will once again take the title as most oppressive. · 1 minute ago
Oh, if only that were true! Sure, we'll have Star Chambers where we execute secret, encoded orders from the Vatican and manipulate things from behind the scenes, but there's little chance that someone as nice as Rick Santorum will ever enforce religious orthodoxy on the planet. To do that, we'd need someone as obsessed with forcing their moral code on everyone else like Barack Obama or Hilary Clinton.
May '11
Re: Gary Hart's Continued Monkey Business
Paul A. Rahe
Joseph Eagar: Why are urban elites all like this? I find it frankly offensive. My ancestors had to sail around the tip of South America and up to California (they then settled San Francisco, a decision many of us now regret), in a long, nasty trip (this is back in the days of wooden sailing ships), to escape religious persecution.
To suggest that American Christians have the same sectarian cleansing instinct today is absurd, and frankly devalues what some of our ancestors did go through. I mean, come on Gary, Mitt Romney might win the Republican nomination. · 3 minutes ago
Edited 2 minutes ago
. . . and he might win the Presidency as well. As far as I can see, the America that we now live in could elect a Mormon President or a Jewish President without it being a shock to anyone. · 22 minutes ago
Heck, we've already elected two black presidents (Bill Clinton was the first.)
Re: Gary Hart's Continued Monkey Business
thelonious
If you throw in not providing contraception for women I'd say you're pretty close to being as oppressive as the atheist regimes. If we elect Santorum the Catholic Church will once again take the title as most oppressive. · 5 minutes ago
Edited 4 minutes ago
I don't understand this. So fighting to retain one's doctrine against government threat is the same as widespread killing of believers? And if someone who is Catholic is elected, the *church* will become oppressive?
Are we joking or am I missing something? Or a lot of things?
Re: Gary Hart's Continued Monkey Business
I'm Lutheran, not Catholic, but if the Catholic Church is so powerful in civic affairs, how come they can't even stop this HHS mandate? An odd power they have ...
Jul '10
Re: Gary Hart's Continued Monkey Business
thelonious
K T Cat: As a Catholic, I'm proud of our past. At the time we were running the Inquisition, engaging in Crusades and otherwise tormenting heretics, we were #1. Hanging, burning, beheading, we had it all. All that professional pride, however, is just a fond memory. When it comes to pure religious intolerance and industrial persecution, no one and I meanno one can come close to the atheists.
Where we held kangaroo courts and persecuted individuals, they rounded up whole villages and shot them. Where we engaged in focused wars against the infidel, they practiced global slaughter. Where we forced people to pay for their sins with gold, they simply enslaved hundreds of millions of people for generations. We could add several zeroes to the end of our stats and still not be on the same level as the atheists.
If you throw in not providing contraception for women I'd say you're pretty close to being as oppressive as the atheist regimes.
How is not providing something oppressive?
I want a new house. Get me one right now (at no out of pocket cost to me) oppressor!