From Jumping the Shark to Cutting No Ice. The Origin of Yet Another Idiom
Okay, so I may have been more or less the last person on the planet to have learned the derivation of "jumping the shark," but this time I've got one for all of you, I promise.
It comes from The Fortune of War, the sixth in Patrick O'Brian's magnificent series of novels about life in the British navy during the Napoleonic wars. In this scene, Irishman Stephen Maturin, a prisoner about the U.S.S. Constitution, discusses varieties of English with the Constitution's surgeon, a Mr. Evans:
‘Why, sure,’ said Evans, in his harsh nasal metallic bray, ‘the right American English is spoke in Boston, and even as far as Watertown. You will find no corruption there, I believe, no colonial expressions, other than those that arise naturally from our intercourse with the Indians. Boston, sir, is a well of English, pure and undefiled.’
‘I am fully persuaded of it,’ said Stephen. ‘Yet at breakfast this morning Mr Adams, who was also riz in Boston, stated that hominy grits cut no ice with him. I have been puzzling over his words ever since. I am acquainted with the grits, a grateful pap that might with advantage be exhibited in cases of duodenal debility, and I at once perceived that the expression was figurative. But in what does the figure consist? Is it desirable that ice should be cut? And if so, why? And what is the force of with?’
After barely a moment’s pause, Mr Evans said, ‘Ah, there now, you have an Indian expression. It is a variant upon the Iroquois katno aiss’ vizmi – I am unmoved, unimpressed. Yes, sir.’
"Cuts no ice with me" comes from the Iroquois.
Can anyone here at Ricochet claim, with a straight and sinless face, to have known that already? Oh, I doubt that. I doubt that very much.
I will now await a flood of comments, thanking me for the educational service I have just performed.
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Comments:
May '10
Re: From Jumping the Shark to Cutting No Ice. The Origin of Yet Another Idiom
Misthiocracy:
How about, "you sir are like a stream of bat's piss," any why it's actually a compliment? · 5 hours ago
You shine out like a shaft of gold when all about is darkness...
Classic Python.
Aug '11
Re: From Jumping the Shark to Cutting No Ice. The Origin of Yet Another Idiom
Cutting ice was a pastime in New England in the winter. In fact, it was big business. Wenham Lake(the "Great Pond" and part of Salem), the water source for much of the North Shore, was reknowned for its sweet ice. You can still see the remains of the long piers used to haul the big chunks on horse and cart across the muddy shallows along the lake to the railroad where the ice would be transported to market. Even when I was a kid, there were still ice puveyors. The ice was cut in winter from lakes and stored in deep, stone lined pits and covered with sawdust. The sawdust was a great insulator and the ice would last well into summer. Sorry, but "cut no ice" refers to that practice and not any Indian saying.
By the way, I've been through the O'Brian series three times (I need another five years before I can start again) and I know M&C, the movie, by heart . "Down, Everybody down!" O'Brian liked a good joke, and this was one.
Dec '11
Re: From Jumping the Shark to Cutting No Ice. The Origin of Yet Another Idiom
Mr Robinson
You have proved to me beyond a shadow of doubt your proficiency in idioms. No further examples will be needed.
I am also happy to hear that you have decided to move to Spain to broadened your knowledge of the world. I hope that your new more cosmopolitan life with the monks will not corrupt you too much.
How shall we pronounce your new name, is it Pee-dro or Pay-dro?
I hope in the future I will be able to take this memberly ribbing as well as you have. :)
Re: From Jumping the Shark to Cutting No Ice. The Origin of Yet Another Idiom
skipsul: Remember too, that for all that Lileks might rib you, he was still photographed in that yellow muscle shirt.
Sisyphus
Peter Robinson
No! No, no, no, no, no! If this turns out to be true--if, in a desperate bid to rehabilitate myself as the resident etymologist, I've only exposed myself to further ridicule (the merethoughtof what James Lileks will do to me when we record this week's podcast)--I shall change my name, retire to a monastery in Spain, and live out my life on bread and water.
Of course, nothing can save you from the Lileks. · 33 minutes ago
Edited 32 minutes ago
5 hours ago
Thank you, Skipsul. If anything saves me from James, it will be the threat of once again raising the matter of his yellow muscle shirt.
Jun '10
Re: From Jumping the Shark to Cutting No Ice. The Origin of Yet Another Idiom
On the upside, Peter, I have just visited audible.com and placed an order for Master and Commander.
Sep '11
Re: From Jumping the Shark to Cutting No Ice. The Origin of Yet Another Idiom
Uh, except...
The harbors in the northeastern U.S., and most of Atlantic Canada, don't freeze over.
If the phrase refers to the actual cutting of ice, I think cutting lake ice for refrigeration is more likely. But I'm guessing....
Apr '11
Re: From Jumping the Shark to Cutting No Ice. The Origin of Yet Another Idiom
Try them. The stories are not military history (though you can pick up a good deal if you've a mind). They are about people who are sometimes involved in military actions, not mention not infrequent acts of zoology.
Apr '11
Re: From Jumping the Shark to Cutting No Ice. The Origin of Yet Another Idiom
Thanks for the advice, gents. I shall give them a try!
May '10
Re: From Jumping the Shark to Cutting No Ice. The Origin of Yet Another Idiom
. It's a little know fact that the phrase, "cuts no ice with me," originated in the Jewish community; in particular the gem cutting business. There was a fellow, Ebenezer Schnipper, who moonlighted as a diamond cutter while his day job was working as a mohel. As a mohel he was reasonably precise; good enough, I guess. But his imprecision was such that none of the serious gem cutters wanted to work together with him as their partner in this demanding trade. Thus grew up the saying, "He cuts no ice with me." knew you'd want to know, Peter. No need to thank me. .
Edited on April 30, 2012 at 5:39amOct '10
Re: From Jumping the Shark to Cutting No Ice. The Origin of Yet Another Idiom
Stand back and take a look at this entire conversation.Seriously, is it any wonder Conservatives can't get the youth vote?Oh well. That's fine. The Dems can have 'em, as long as I don't have to pretend to find Kanye culturally valuable.Also, having never read O'Brian, I have just ordered the first three books of the series off Amazon. Thanks for the recommendation, Peter.
Mar '11
Re: From Jumping the Shark to Cutting No Ice. The Origin of Yet Another Idiom
I was reading O'Brian at 18. The "Youth Vote" never had me even then.
Feb '12
Re: From Jumping the Shark to Cutting No Ice. The Origin of Yet Another Idiom
People ask why I don't want to just be a teacher (it's not like a history degree is much good for anything else. My reply:
"I hated teenagers when I was one. Why would I want to spend my adult life in a place I was desperate to escape?"
skipsul: I was reading O'Brian at 18. The "Youth Vote" never had me even then. · 12 minutes ago
Sep '11
Re: From Jumping the Shark to Cutting No Ice. The Origin of Yet Another Idiom
The author is using his poetic licence to fabricate a phrase in a language presumed unknown to his readers. Anyone silly enough to start consulting encyclopaedias and dictionaries deserves to receive the confusion that id headed their way. Assertive bluffing is a great sport if you have the scholarship and the nous for it, Folks.
Es passt em az vie a hind Tziterkanfes.
Yiddish 19th Century Proverb.
Aug '10
Re: From Jumping the Shark to Cutting No Ice. The Origin of Yet Another Idiom
Charlotte: The Patrick O'Brian books come up in conversation occasionally at Ricochet. I have noticed that
1. many, many Rico-peeps seem to love them; and
2. the majority of Rico-peeps who love them are male.
So my question is, would these books appeal to a female reader? I sawMaster and Commanderand loved it, but I'm not sure whether I would enjoy the books. I do like historical fiction, but I'm not sure how many hundreds of pages I could take about early 19th-century naval warfare.
What do you think? · 17 hours ago
I've never read 'em. I generally avoid novels with gobs and gobs of technical/historical information. I'm not a Tom Clancy fan, for example.
On the other hand, I love Edward Rutherford's Sarum, and Neal Stephenson's Cryptonomicon, which are nothing but gobs and gobs of technical/historical information.
So who knows what you'll like!
Aug '10
Re: From Jumping the Shark to Cutting No Ice. The Origin of Yet Another Idiom
skipsul:
Posh (Port Out Starboard Home)
Now I get to be the pedant! The etymology of posh as an acronym is generally considered to be a myth.
Mar '11
Re: From Jumping the Shark to Cutting No Ice. The Origin of Yet Another Idiom
John Murdoch
Nathaniel Wright:
The term refers to the cutting of ice by ships during the colder months in order to get into port. In the colder climes, bays and harbors were known to freeze over.
Uh, except...
The harbors in the northeastern U.S., and most of Atlantic Canada, don't freeze over.
It used to:
Reading Washington, a life by Ron Chernow, the author points out that Washington had planned on Boston Harbor freezing over in a thickness allowing his army to attack the city across the ice. That implies that it was a regular occurrence.
Googling such an event: BOSTON HARBOR FROZEN OVER.; For First Times Since 1855 Ice Extends Mile from Shore. - February 22, 1904
Mar '11
Re: From Jumping the Shark to Cutting No Ice. The Origin of Yet Another Idiom
You can certainly glean a great deal of technical info from O'Brian's books, but that's not what they're about, and you don't need to know naval lingo to enjoy the books. They're adventure and character stories, not Clancy pap (apologies to Clancy fans, but I never could stomach him).
Misthiocracy
I've never read 'em. I generally avoid novels with gobs and gobs of technical/historical information. I'm not a Tom Clancy fan, for example.
On the other hand, I love Edward Rutherford'sSarum, and Neal Stephenson'sCryptonomicon, which are nothingbutgobs and gobs of technical/historical information.
So who knows what you'll like! · 54 minutes ago
Mar '11
Re: From Jumping the Shark to Cutting No Ice. The Origin of Yet Another Idiom
Same affliction here - got a degree in History & Secondary Ed, then decided to go into making electronics instead. Life is strange eh?
Amy Schley: People ask why I don't want to just be a teacher (it's not like a history degree is much good for anything else. My reply:
"I hated teenagers when I was one. Why would I want to spend my adult life in a place I was desperate to escape?"
skipsul: I was reading O'Brian at 18. The "Youth Vote" never had me even then. · 12 minutes ago
3 hours ago
Sep '10
Re: From Jumping the Shark to Cutting No Ice. The Origin of Yet Another Idiom
Repeat after me, quickly: "Oh Wah Tah Goo Siam!"