From Jumping the Shark to Cutting No Ice. The Origin of Yet Another Idiom
Okay, so I may have been more or less the last person on the planet to have learned the derivation of "jumping the shark," but this time I've got one for all of you, I promise.
It comes from The Fortune of War, the sixth in Patrick O'Brian's magnificent series of novels about life in the British navy during the Napoleonic wars. In this scene, Irishman Stephen Maturin, a prisoner about the U.S.S. Constitution, discusses varieties of English with the Constitution's surgeon, a Mr. Evans:
‘Why, sure,’ said Evans, in his harsh nasal metallic bray, ‘the right American English is spoke in Boston, and even as far as Watertown. You will find no corruption there, I believe, no colonial expressions, other than those that arise naturally from our intercourse with the Indians. Boston, sir, is a well of English, pure and undefiled.’
‘I am fully persuaded of it,’ said Stephen. ‘Yet at breakfast this morning Mr Adams, who was also riz in Boston, stated that hominy grits cut no ice with him. I have been puzzling over his words ever since. I am acquainted with the grits, a grateful pap that might with advantage be exhibited in cases of duodenal debility, and I at once perceived that the expression was figurative. But in what does the figure consist? Is it desirable that ice should be cut? And if so, why? And what is the force of with?’
After barely a moment’s pause, Mr Evans said, ‘Ah, there now, you have an Indian expression. It is a variant upon the Iroquois katno aiss’ vizmi – I am unmoved, unimpressed. Yes, sir.’
"Cuts no ice with me" comes from the Iroquois.
Can anyone here at Ricochet claim, with a straight and sinless face, to have known that already? Oh, I doubt that. I doubt that very much.
I will now await a flood of comments, thanking me for the educational service I have just performed.
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Comments:
Jan '11
Re: From Jumping the Shark to Cutting No Ice. The Origin of Yet Another Idiom
There is a nice discussion of the (ahem) real etymology of not cutting ice here. PS - Misthio #7 the brass monkey explanation is also untrue. :)
Aug '10
Re: From Jumping the Shark to Cutting No Ice. The Origin of Yet Another Idiom
Oh, you're no fun anymore.
Aug '11
Re: From Jumping the Shark to Cutting No Ice. The Origin of Yet Another Idiom
Peter Robinson
I shall change my name, retire to a monastery in Spain, and live out my life on bread and water. · 1 hour ago
Which of course is taken from the Indonesian phrase "Mai Nam Khangi quiti o abbi spanni et krusti wati"
Apr '12
Re: From Jumping the Shark to Cutting No Ice. The Origin of Yet Another Idiom
Supposing the phrase did come from the Iriquous, why did they use it?
Mar '11
Re: From Jumping the Shark to Cutting No Ice. The Origin of Yet Another Idiom
Maturin was actually a white Hispanian, I believe.
Apr '11
Re: From Jumping the Shark to Cutting No Ice. The Origin of Yet Another Idiom
The Patrick O'Brian books come up in conversation occasionally at Ricochet. I have noticed that
1. many, many Rico-peeps seem to love them; and
2. the majority of Rico-peeps who love them are male.
So my question is, would these books appeal to a female reader? I saw Master and Commander and loved it, but I'm not sure whether I would enjoy the books. I do like historical fiction, but I'm not sure how many hundreds of pages I could take about early 19th-century naval warfare.
What do you think?
Mar '11
Re: From Jumping the Shark to Cutting No Ice. The Origin of Yet Another Idiom
The naval warfare is always in the background of the books, and it sometimes is what carries the plot, but the books are very deep reads of character too. They've been likened (favorably) to Jane Austen but at sea, so to speak.
Charlotte: The Patrick O'Brian books come up in conversation occasionally at Ricochet. I have noticed that
1. many, many Rico-peeps seem to love them; and
2. the majority of Rico-peeps who love them are male.
So my question is, would these books appeal to a female reader? I sawMaster and Commanderand loved it, but I'm not sure whether I would enjoy the books. I do like historical fiction, but I'm not sure how many hundreds of pages I could take about early 19th-century naval warfare.
What do you think? · 7 minutes ago
Aug '10
Re: From Jumping the Shark to Cutting No Ice. The Origin of Yet Another Idiom
Charlotte: The Patrick O'Brian books come up in conversation occasionally at Ricochet. I have noticed that
1. many, many Rico-peeps seem to love them; and
2. the majority of Rico-peeps who love them are male.
So my question is, would these books appeal to a female reader? I sawMaster and Commanderand loved it, but I'm not sure whether I would enjoy the books. I do like historical fiction, but I'm not sure how many hundreds of pages I could take about early 19th-century naval warfare.
What do you think? · 12 minutes ago
Charlotte, you would be well served to read the Honor Harrington series by David Weber. Think of it as Horatio Hornblower in space and akin to the Aubry/ Maturin series - but with a female lead. She also has a telepathic cat.
Edited on April 30, 2012 at 12:41amOct '11
Re: From Jumping the Shark to Cutting No Ice. The Origin of Yet Another Idiom
Indeed, Post Captain is O'Brian's homage to Pride and Prejudice.
skipsul: The naval warfare is always in the background of the books, and it sometimes is what carries the plot, but the books are very deep reads of character too. They've been likened (favorably) to Jane Austen but at sea, so to speak.
Charlotte: The Patrick O'Brian books come up in conversation occasionally at Ricochet. I have noticed that
1. many, many Rico-peeps seem to love them; and
2. the majority of Rico-peeps who love them are male.
So my question is, would these books appeal to a female reader? I sawMaster and Commanderand loved it, but I'm not sure whether I would enjoy the books. I do like historical fiction, but I'm not sure how many hundreds of pages I could take about early 19th-century naval warfare.
What do you think? · 7 minutes ago
0 minutes ago
May '10
Re: From Jumping the Shark to Cutting No Ice. The Origin of Yet Another Idiom
Mar '11
Re: From Jumping the Shark to Cutting No Ice. The Origin of Yet Another Idiom
Charlotte: The Patrick O'Brian books come up in conversation occasionally at Ricochet. I have noticed that
1. many, many Rico-peeps seem to love them; and
2. the majority of Rico-peeps who love them are male.
So my question is, would these books appeal to a female reader? I sawMaster and Commanderand loved it, but I'm not sure whether I would enjoy the books. I do like historical fiction, but I'm not sure how many hundreds of pages I could take about early 19th-century naval warfare.
What do you think? · 22 minutes ago
Charlotte, these books (some critics view them as one extended novel) are about relationships. Long portions deal with domestic affairs, and Maturin's love affair with Diana Villiers runs throughout. Don't hesitate to jump in.
Edited on April 30, 2012 at 1:16amMar '11
Re: From Jumping the Shark to Cutting No Ice. The Origin of Yet Another Idiom
He just tee'd that one up didn't he?
EJHill · 15 minutes ago
Oct '11
Re: From Jumping the Shark to Cutting No Ice. The Origin of Yet Another Idiom
I concede on that point, but I'm sure that I at least tie you for being the last person to know what jumping the shark means. Inasmuch as I missed several decades of television, including the show from which the phrase came, I am still not sure enough of its meaning to use the phrase with any confidence. It is a handicap I will have to learn to live with.
Jul '10
Re: From Jumping the Shark to Cutting No Ice. The Origin of Yet Another Idiom
That would explain why this TEXAN has never even heard of the phrase. Ain't too many bodies of water freezing 'round Here.
Oct '11
Re: From Jumping the Shark to Cutting No Ice. The Origin of Yet Another Idiom
And yet 7/11 was started in Texas, wasn't it?
May '10
Re: From Jumping the Shark to Cutting No Ice. The Origin of Yet Another Idiom
Thanks for fighting the good fight. The explosion in misinformation about word origins, pop history, hunting stories, etc. is one of the tragedies of the internet and email, duly noting all the other wonderful uses for them.
Mar '11
Re: From Jumping the Shark to Cutting No Ice. The Origin of Yet Another Idiom
Between etymology and Patrick O'Brian we have given birth here to two splinter conversations deserving their own threads.
Some more fodder:
A large number of nautical expressions have entered English vernacular. Examples:
Not liking the cut of your jib (self explanatory I hope)
Boom Town (a busy town's skyline would be filled with ships' booms)
Cutting slack
Don't sweat the small stuff (sweating refers to the removal of slack in standing rigging)
3 sheets to the wind (a sail has only 2 sheets, so this expression means really drunk)
Posh (Port Out Starboard Home)
The Devil to Pay
By and Large
Being pooped
Being taken aback
go by the board
make headway
batten down hatches
jury rig
etc. etc.
Sep '10
Re: From Jumping the Shark to Cutting No Ice. The Origin of Yet Another Idiom
Given my nom de ricochet I fear I must comment on this post even though I have not had time to read eveyone's learned response; with regard to Boston being the well of true English I must tell you I had the opportunity to meet Mr. Patrick O'Brian at the Mariner's Museum in Virginia in the mid 90s and to thank him for his very realistic depiction of me and my particular friend Dr. Maturin. At the meeting a rather portly fellow who wore a beard and one of those too tight polyester shirts that one sometimes sees in the west Indies asked a question in the accent of the typical Bostonian. He was unconvinced of Dr Maturin's ability with the sword to which Mr. O'Brian said, "What can I say, Sir, you think one thing, and I another." Later on I mentioned the fellow to him and said it was obvious from his accent that he was not a Virginian. Mr. O'Brian then said, "oh ,yes, that was very clear...wretched creature."
This exchange might be a metaphor for our political life and the wretched creatures we must abide every day.
Mar '11
Re: From Jumping the Shark to Cutting No Ice. The Origin of Yet Another Idiom
Oh, and the monkey bit, don't know if this is true (cited at same link as above) but...
I'd not heard that one before, and don't believe it. I'm thinking the real origin of the expression had something to do with a Hindu temple with a monkey god, high in the Himalaya's...
Sep '10
Re: From Jumping the Shark to Cutting No Ice. The Origin of Yet Another Idiom
Albert Arthur: Indeed,Post Captain is O'Brian's homage toPride and Prejudice.
skipsul: The naval warfare is always in the background of the books, and it sometimes is what carries the plot, but the books are very deep reads of character too. They've been likened (favorably) to Jane Austen but at sea, so to speak.
Charlotte: The Patrick O'Brian books come up in conversation occasionally at Ricochet. I have noticed that
1. many, many Rico-peeps seem to love them; and
2. the majority of Rico-peeps who love them are male.
So my question is, would these books appeal to a female reader? I sawMaster and Commanderand loved it, but I'm not sure whether I would enjoy the books. I do like historical fiction, but I'm not sure how many hundreds of pages I could take about early 19th-century naval warfare.
What do you think? · 7 minutes ago
0 minutes ago
3 hours ago
I think there is a subset of women who not only like Jane Austen but have actually read her and of that set of women I dare say most would like O'Brian's books.