From Jumping the Shark to Cutting No Ice. The Origin of Yet Another Idiom
Okay, so I may have been more or less the last person on the planet to have learned the derivation of "jumping the shark," but this time I've got one for all of you, I promise.
It comes from The Fortune of War, the sixth in Patrick O'Brian's magnificent series of novels about life in the British navy during the Napoleonic wars. In this scene, Irishman Stephen Maturin, a prisoner about the U.S.S. Constitution, discusses varieties of English with the Constitution's surgeon, a Mr. Evans:
‘Why, sure,’ said Evans, in his harsh nasal metallic bray, ‘the right American English is spoke in Boston, and even as far as Watertown. You will find no corruption there, I believe, no colonial expressions, other than those that arise naturally from our intercourse with the Indians. Boston, sir, is a well of English, pure and undefiled.’
‘I am fully persuaded of it,’ said Stephen. ‘Yet at breakfast this morning Mr Adams, who was also riz in Boston, stated that hominy grits cut no ice with him. I have been puzzling over his words ever since. I am acquainted with the grits, a grateful pap that might with advantage be exhibited in cases of duodenal debility, and I at once perceived that the expression was figurative. But in what does the figure consist? Is it desirable that ice should be cut? And if so, why? And what is the force of with?’
After barely a moment’s pause, Mr Evans said, ‘Ah, there now, you have an Indian expression. It is a variant upon the Iroquois katno aiss’ vizmi – I am unmoved, unimpressed. Yes, sir.’
"Cuts no ice with me" comes from the Iroquois.
Can anyone here at Ricochet claim, with a straight and sinless face, to have known that already? Oh, I doubt that. I doubt that very much.
I will now await a flood of comments, thanking me for the educational service I have just performed.
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Comments:
May '10
Re: From Jumping the Shark to Cutting No Ice. The Origin of Yet Another Idiom
Those who fish for compliments cut no ice with me.
Edited on April 29, 2012 at 10:23pmJul '10
Re: From Jumping the Shark to Cutting No Ice. The Origin of Yet Another Idiom
Sorry, Peter, I do not have the etymology at hand, but I believe Mr. O'Brian is putting one over on you here. Here is another droll fellow of the same opinion.
Edited on April 29, 2012 at 10:20pmRe: From Jumping the Shark to Cutting No Ice. The Origin of Yet Another Idiom
Sisyphus: Sorry, Peter, I do not have the etymology at hand, but I believe Mr. O'Brian is putting one over on you here. Here is another droll fellow of the same opinion. · 5 minutes ago
Edited 2 minutes ago
No! No, no, no, no, no! If this turns out to be true--if, in a desperate bid to rehabilitate myself as the resident etymologist, I've only exposed myself to further ridicule (the mere thought of what James Lileks will do to me when we record this week's podcast)--I shall change my name, retire to a monastery in Spain, and live out my life on bread and water.
Jul '10
Re: From Jumping the Shark to Cutting No Ice. The Origin of Yet Another Idiom
Peter Robinson
No! No, no, no, no, no! If this turns out to be true--if, in a desperate bid to rehabilitate myself as the resident etymologist, I've only exposed myself to further ridicule (the merethoughtof what James Lileks will do to me when we record this week's podcast)--I shall change my name, retire to a monastery in Spain, and live out my life on bread and water.
Or you could join in the fellowship of we fallen mortals so prey to error and enjoy the laugh. With children to be got through college, perhaps this is the way to go.
Of course, nothing can save you from the Lileks.
Edited on April 29, 2012 at 10:30pmDec '11
Re: From Jumping the Shark to Cutting No Ice. The Origin of Yet Another Idiom
I take solace in not knowing the origins of that pop-culture phrase from the fact, I'd never heard before. Now that I have, I'll try to use it and see it break out into the wider cultural realm around me. I'm sure my attempt to do so will go over like a Led Zeppelin.
Apr '12
Re: From Jumping the Shark to Cutting No Ice. The Origin of Yet Another Idiom
Peter, your next assignment is the etymology of the phrase, "Don't try this at home!"
Aug '10
Re: From Jumping the Shark to Cutting No Ice. The Origin of Yet Another Idiom
I have never heard the idiom "cuts no ice" before now.
Is it popular with the kids these days?
I do know the etymology of, "it's cold enough to freeze the balls off a brass monkey." Do I impress?
How about, "you sir are like a stream of bat's piss," any why it's actually a compliment?
Aug '10
Re: From Jumping the Shark to Cutting No Ice. The Origin of Yet Another Idiom
I am curious, however, about who coined the phrase, "that's exactly right."
May '10
Re: From Jumping the Shark to Cutting No Ice. The Origin of Yet Another Idiom
Straight and sinless face? You ask too much, sir!
Aug '10
Re: From Jumping the Shark to Cutting No Ice. The Origin of Yet Another Idiom
Peter Robinson
I shall change my name, retire to a monastery in Spain, and live out my life on bread and water.
Some days, that sounds like a reward rather than penance.
Feb '12
Re: From Jumping the Shark to Cutting No Ice. The Origin of Yet Another Idiom
If it wouldn't cause a deletion of my posts. I would change my ricochet handle to "fallen mortal" I love that
May '11
Re: From Jumping the Shark to Cutting No Ice. The Origin of Yet Another Idiom
For anyone interested in the army side of things during the Napoleonic Wars, I recommend the Sharpe novels by Bernard Cornwell. They were made into a dozen or so TV movies featuring Sean Bean in the starring role.
The Horatio Hornblower novel series by C.S. Forester isn't bad either. It was also made into an excellent miniseries.
Both were recommended readings for lessons in leadership when I was in AF Officer Training School.
Oct '11
Re: From Jumping the Shark to Cutting No Ice. The Origin of Yet Another Idiom
O'brien likes to make jokes about turns of phrase. My favorite is the following (also from The Fortune of War):
Oct '11
Re: From Jumping the Shark to Cutting No Ice. The Origin of Yet Another Idiom
Those series are both ok, but Patrick O'brian is is a much better writer.
Ningrim: For anyone interested in the army side of things during the Napoleonic Wars, I recommend the Sharpe novels by Bernard Cornwell. They were made into a dozen or so TV movies featuring Sean Bean in the starring role.
The Horatio Hornblowernovel series by C.S. Forester isn't bad either. It was also made into an excellent miniseries.
Both were recommended readings for lessons in leadership when I was in AF Officer Training School. · 2 minutes ago
Mar '11
Re: From Jumping the Shark to Cutting No Ice. The Origin of Yet Another Idiom
O'Brian was a master of this sort of thing. Usually, he would set the elements of the idiom out there and let his readers make the connection. My favorite from his novels is his flogging reference to "letting the cat out of the bag."
Mar '11
Re: From Jumping the Shark to Cutting No Ice. The Origin of Yet Another Idiom
Albert Arthur: O'brien likes to make jokes about turns of phrase. My favorite is the following (also fromThe Fortune of War):
2 minutes ago
Don't forget the curtailed dog watch. Both of these japes made many reappearances in the novels.
Aug '10
Re: From Jumping the Shark to Cutting No Ice. The Origin of Yet Another Idiom
Were I to invent -- out of whole cloth -- an explanation for "cuts no ice with me" for an etymological board/party game, I would state the following...The origin of the term is Maritime in nature and largely used in areas of the Northeastern United States and Eastern Canada. The term refers to the cutting of ice by ships during the colder months in order to get into port. In the colder climes, bays and harbors were known to freeze over. In order to properly make it to the docks, a ship would have to "cut ice." A ship that couldn't cut ice was useless for trade, and useless in general. Thus when someone says that something "cuts no ice" they are saying that it is useless or meaningless, or that the point doesn't "make it home" so to speak.
Mar '11
Re: From Jumping the Shark to Cutting No Ice. The Origin of Yet Another Idiom
Remember too, that for all that Lileks might rib you, he was still photographed in that yellow muscle shirt. He may win any bar-trivia contest (unless pitted against Denis Miller & Jonah Goldberg), but cool that photo ain't.
Sisyphus
Peter Robinson
No! No, no, no, no, no! If this turns out to be true--if, in a desperate bid to rehabilitate myself as the resident etymologist, I've only exposed myself to further ridicule (the merethoughtof what James Lileks will do to me when we record this week's podcast)--I shall change my name, retire to a monastery in Spain, and live out my life on bread and water.
Or you could join in the fellowship of we fallen mortals so prey to error and enjoy the laugh. With children to be got through college, perhaps this is the way to go.
Of course, nothing can save you from the Lileks. · 33 minutes ago
Edited 32 minutes ago
Aug '10
Re: From Jumping the Shark to Cutting No Ice. The Origin of Yet Another Idiom
Albert Arthur: O'brien likes to make jokes about turns of phrase. My favorite is the following (also fromThe Fortune of War):
21 minutes ago
The topic is etymology, not entomology.
Apr '11
Re: From Jumping the Shark to Cutting No Ice. The Origin of Yet Another Idiom
Of course I do, Peter. I read the same book ten years ago.
I also know more about electric fluid than I needed to as well.
That is what makes O'Brian such a magnificent writer; it isn't how many things interest him, but that he can make you be interested in them too.
We might as well start listing our favorite quotes of the late Mr. O'Brian. Mine is: