Freedom for What?
Richard Fulmer ·
December 26, 2012 at 11:29pm
Why do Americans value freedom? Is freedom an end in itself? Or do we value freedom so that we can seek our own ends - our own purpose for being - rather than being merely the means to others' ends?
To find a worthy purpose, we must first seek truth so that, in fulfilling our chosen purpose, we may increase the good in the world, however small our contribution.
Father Robert Sirico writes, "I am convinced that the pursuit of excellence sincerely undertaken, in even the most humble of legitimate occupations, is a way to encounter the whole truth of the universe "an inchoate search for God."
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Oct '10
Re: Freedom for What?
Erroneous reply.. deleted.
Edited on December 26, 2012 at 9:31pmOct '10
Re: Freedom for What?
I can't speak for anyone else, but it's my view that, without freedom.. (here understood as the ability to act as a moral agent) virtue itself becomes impossible.
If we are compelled to act in a manner thought to be good and righteous, there is no virtue.
By freedom, I don't mean an absence of coercive pressure.. economic, social, or police power. In this context, it means despite such pressure we make what be believe to be the right choice.
In this sense, men such as Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn were free in a way that their captors were not.
Apr '11
Re: Freedom for What?
Feb '11
Re: Freedom for What?
Freedom should be the default condition.
Nov '11
Re: Freedom for What?
Limestone Cowboy
I can't speak for anyone else, but it's my view that, without freedom.. (here understood as the ability to act as a moral agent) virtue itself becomes impossible.
If we are compelled to act in a manner thought to be good and righteous, there is no virtue.
By freedom, I don't mean an absence of coercive pressure.. economic, social, or police power. In this context, it means despite such pressure we make what be believe to be the right choice.
In this sense, men such as Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn were free in a way that their captors were not.
"What is virtue if not the free choice of what is good?"
Alexis de Tocqueville
Apr '12
Re: Freedom for What?
I did not understand George Bush and why he spoke about bringing freedom to other parts of the world.
The word Freedom had never made it into the vernacular of Zambia or even Canada, my later homeland.
I had grown up never discussing politics - in Zambia, that got a knock at the door at midnight and a long trip, never to be seen again. Yet, I did not link the speech or thinking with Freedom.
This seems to be a uniquely American concept that is worth educating others about, but in greater detail.
Ironically, Fred Cole posted a movie review on the Member Feed and I went to see it. There is a monologue by Reacher on why he fought, "For Freedom. So those people in office buildings can be free from grief and pain."
I paid attention to that because after my times of fear and loss in Zambia, freedom to live a dull life is very special, even if Americans do not recognize that to be poor in america is still richer than being OK in Zambia.
It does go to freedom to create and to know your creation will not be taken (except by Obama's taxes).
Jun '10
Re: Freedom for What?
I'm not a libertarian, and believe there are some trade-offs between a civil, self-governed nation and human freedom. But I agree with Israel that freedom should be the default position, and that limitations on freedom must be justified before government imposes them.
I agree with others that freedom is a condition for virtue. Sadly, we can all cite many cases where human freedom is misused in ways that create all kinds of chaos, pain, and harm. But compulsion is far worse.
Edited on December 27, 2012 at 12:49amMay '10
Re: Freedom for What?
Freedom is one of those words that exists with opposing meanings across the political spectrum.
To us, freedom is the ability to pursue one's life in order to do meaningful work, to provide for ourselves, our loved ones and our posterity without the intrusion of the collective, provided our freedom and pursuits do not infringe on the freedom of others.
To the left, freedom is freedom from responsibility, to take on the life of perpetual adolescence, to have one's every need taken care of by the nanny state so that we may have the freedom to engage unencumbered in sexual and artistic endeavors. This, of course, requires the state to parse out resources from the productive class to the leisure class until the former ceases to produce. Then productivity becomes compulsory, regardless of the personal reward and the freedom one believes was benevolently created for them disappears. Except in sloganeering, because we will be reminded that Arbeit Macht Frei.
Nov '11
Re: Freedom for What?
Each word represents a thought. When words are corrupted, thoughts are corrupted.
Apr '12
Re: Freedom for What?
EJHill:Freedom is one of those words that exists with opposing meanings across the political spectrum.
To us, freedom is the ability to pursue one's life in order to do meaningful work, to provide for ourselves, our loved ones and our posterity without the intrusion of the collective, provided our freedom and pursuits do not infringe on the freedom of others.
To the left, freedom isfreedom from responsibility, to take on the life of perpetual adolescence, to have one's every need taken care of by the nanny state so that we may have the freedom to engage unencumbered in sexual and artistic endeavors. This, of course, requires the state to parse out resources from the productive class to the leisure class until the former ceases to produce. Then productivity becomes compulsory, regardless of the personal reward and the freedom one believes was benevolently created for them disappears. Except in sloganeering, because we will be reminded that Arbeit Macht Frei. · 38 minutes ago
It is the Left's definition of Freedom that I put on George Bush's phrase which is why it cluncked for me. Thanks for the clarification.
Jan '11
Re: Freedom for What?
Freedom is the recognition that although I may not have all the answers, or even very many of them, I do know one thing ...
these idiots don't know any more than I do ...
and I have no intention of surrendering my judgment for theirs.
Oct '10
Re: Freedom for What?
Since the origin of life on Earth, evolution has discovered three different ways to learn from experience and thus build more complex structures from simple foundations: the genome (driven by variation and selection, and inherited), the central nervous system and brain (driven by experience, but not passed on to descendants), and the vertebrate adaptive immune system (passed on in part, but mostly up to the individual to develop immunity).
Each of these systems works in precisely the same manner: massively parallel hill-climbing. Only the mechanisms of variation, selection, and storage differ. All require reliable storage to operate.
What does this have to do with the topic we're discussing? Everything—what we've witnessed since the Enlightenment is the fourth way organisms can learn from experience, search the space of possible solutions, and climb ever higher on the rugged fitness landscape. And doing so requires freedom: freedom to try crazy things and fail ignominiously, and occasionally succeed extravagantly (and not be punished should one do so).
Free countries aren't free because they're rich; they're rich because they're free.
Freedom is not just valuable in itself; it is a prerequisite for prosperity.
Aug '12
Re: Freedom for What?
Please join Dr Zoidberg and I in celebrating Freedom Day!
John Walker - Darwinian societies may produce more individual successes than others, but they also produce a lot more failures. That's the price for rapid social and economic evolution - and it's normal to occasionally question the speed:price ratio we're willing to live with, no?
May '11
Re: Freedom for What?
Speaking as a libertarian and utilitarian, I have a pretty simple answer why I value freedom. It works. The inverse correlation between government control over citizens and the misery of those citizens is nearly perfect. In every time and every place, that's how it has been. Moral theories, ideology, and theology are cool and all, but facts are facts.
Free people are happier, more productive, more creative, and more moral, than subjects. Always and everywhere. History proves it. Facts are facts.
Oh, yeah, and also - slavery is just wrong. Period. If there is a categorical imperative, and I'm not sure there is, but if there is, that's it - slavery is just wrong.
Aug '12
Re: Freedom for What?
"Freedom for What?"
The free exercise of my religion. The ability to teach my religion to my children. The ability to teach them when the government is full of stuff. The ability to teach them how to think for themselves, how to read the Bible for themselves, and how to shift for themselves in a free society.
Apr '11
Re: Freedom for What?
Although Americans are taught to revere the word freedom from our grade school days, it doesn't mean the same thing to everybody. For many people - of all political stripes - freedom means that I should be able to live my life as I see fit, and you should be able to live your life as I see fit. It takes some intellectual maturity to honor people's freedoms to do things that you don't want to do yourself.
Nov '11
Re: Freedom for What?
[F]reedom to try and fail ignominiously, and occasionally succeed extravagantly.
The history of human progress in a single sentence. Very nice.
May '12
Re: Freedom for What?
To me, Freedom is our human echo of the second greatest Gift given to us by God.
God gives us Life. And God gives us Free Will, to do with the lives we have been given what we will.
To act Virtuously, or Sinfully. To bring Joy and Peace to the world (and back to ourselves) or to bring Misery and Conflict to the world.
God gives us Free Will to shape the world we live in, to shape the world our children grow up in and will have to raise out grandchildren in, to even help shape the world the great-grandchildren we may never see are born into.
Freedom is a human concept. It is a recognition by the governments we choose (and yes, we do choose tyrants, if only and often principally by not stopping them from imposing their will on us) that God gave all human beings Free Will. And what God hath given man may give away, but not take away without permission.
I speak in the Abstract, because Free Will and Freedom are some of the most Abstract and Powerful concepts known to Humanity.
Freedom is like Dignity. You'll see & recognize it.
Jun '10
Re: Freedom for What?
C. S. Lewis said this about freedom, moral law, and the relationship between rulers and ruled:
Lewis would be appalled at the attempts of administrative agencies [e.g., EPA] to impose their "vision" on society.
Freedom will be ethereal so long as we are ruled by bureaucrats.
Mar '11
Re: Freedom for What?
Zafar: Please join Dr Zoidberg and I in celebrating Freedom Day!
John Walker - Darwinian societies may produce more individual successes than others, but they also produce a lot more failures. That's the price for rapid social and economic evolution - and it's normal to occasionally question the speed:price ratio we're willing to live with, no? · 1 hour ago
Failures are the unescapable reality of existence Zafar. What you refer to as Darwinian is merely allowing the successful the freedom to succeed.
There is no avoiding failures, what you refer to as a price is a reality where in some societies the cost of failures is forced on to everyone and not born by those who failed.