A woman looking for love today gets to choose among different sets of rules.
There's the now generally accepted "honesty" rule: anything goes, as long as both parties are frank about what they want. Only--who could have guessed?--it often turns out that the female party wants more than the male party does. So women end up painfully trying to cultivate a "Zenlike form of nonattachment" to accommodate themselves to male time horizons, relationship styles, and physical desires.
There are "the Rules" and similar schemes for manipulating men to get what you want, by playing hard to get.
And there's the no-sex-till-you're-married option. Which, especially as it's usually attempted today, is difficult to actually do. And even if you manage it, it's hard to mesh chastity with finding a husband, because courtship patterns at present are defined by the two options above (but especially by the first).
Jane Austen heroines follow rules that have some elements of all three options—while avoiding the problems of each. Some of her rules obviously need some updating before they can work in the 21st century. But the underlying principles are sound.
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Comments:
May '11
Re: Follow the Real, Original "Rules" (Not for Manipulating Men--for Preserving Women's Freedom to Find Love)
I think Franco just realized that someone on the internet is wrong. I've been there and will be there again. I think that these conversations have been among the best ever posted at Ricochet and I have never read anything by Jane Austen. I plan to attend a week long course on the Bronte sisters this summer and I wish I had Elizabeth Kantor to guide me through it.
Feb '11
Re: Follow the Real, Original "Rules" (Not for Manipulating Men--for Preserving Women's Freedom to Find Love)
Astonishing
Franco
but my personal observations suggest that single women and their children get the worst of it. · 6 hours ago
Let's be honest about the growing rate of single women having children out of wedlock. Its been proven empirically that single mom's generally suffer economically, socially, etc. at higher rates than other populations. Yet in spite of the mounting evidence women are not choosing wisely. It is not lost on them how much other single mothers struggle but these women are not vigilant in their use of contraception and in their choice of partners. I understand that single motherhood occurs from divorce but this does not represent the overwhelming majority of that ever growing population. So if these women are experiencing the worst of all worlds, it must be acknowledged that it was of their own making.
Dec '11
Re: Follow the Real, Original "Rules" (Not for Manipulating Men--for Preserving Women's Freedom to Find Love)
Elizabeth Kantor:
There are "the Rules" and similar schemes for manipulating men to get what you want, by playing hard to get.
The Rules, in the opinion of this dinosauriste, work. Fortunately, I am the daughter of a southern mother and didn't need a book to teach me
the basics!
Along with a wide swath of the Rico community, I too, am enjoying your contributions this week. Thanks!
Feb '11
Re: Follow the Real, Original "Rules" (Not for Manipulating Men--for Preserving Women's Freedom to Find Love)
I wish I could remember where and by whom, but there was an interesting study a few years back on single mothers who were from lower socio-economic backgrounds, most when interviewed had an uber-high view of marriage, knew the men they were dating were not of the best caliber (putting it mildly), and had children with them, knowingly, and in spite of the fact, they pretty much "knew" these men would dump them anyways...they wanted the children as loving companions for life, and as surrogates until they found a good husband. It was heartbreaking.
Rosie
Let's be honest about the growing rate of single women having children out of wedlock. Yet in spite of the mounting evidence women are not choosing wisely. It is not lost on them how much other single mothers struggle but these women are not vigilant in their use of contraception and in their choice of partners. So if these women are experiencing the worst of all worlds, it must be acknowledged that it was of their own making. · 10 hours ago
Aug '10
Re: Follow the Real, Original "Rules" (Not for Manipulating Men--for Preserving Women's Freedom to Find Love)
Re comment # 28 : If we woke up tomorrow and all the women in America had, overnight, decided they were going to run their love lives like Jane Austins heroines-- and if they stuck to it--the hostility between the sexes would be over in less than two months. All kinds of "issues" and "monsters" would be revealed as figments of unexamined assumptions, low impulse control and ill fed imaginations. These would melt away.Within less than two years, social workers would have almost nothing to do. Abortion clinics would be forced to close for lack of business. Self awareness, awareness of the character of others (and some shame) would dispel a lot of rage, resentment and self pity. Elizabeth Kantor, I got your book on kindle last night and I can't put it down. Before spring is over, I'll be getting the book for my daughter and my niece.
Edited on April 5, 2012 at 4:26pmNov '11
Re: Follow the Real, Original "Rules" (Not for Manipulating Men--for Preserving Women's Freedom to Find Love)
Rosie
Astonishing:
. . . my personal observations suggest that single women and their children get the worst of it.
Let's be honest about the growing rate of single women having children out of wedlock. Its been proven empirically that single mom's generally suffer economically, socially, etc. at higher rates than other populations. Yet in spite of the mounting evidence women are not choosing wisely. . . . if these women are experiencing the worst of all worlds, it must be acknowledged that it was of their own making.
I can't argue against making women (and men) take responsibility for their choices, and you are right that many (or most) single mothers made a bad choice at some point along the way. But kids do pay the price (and therewith the rest of society), so it's obviously not sufficient simply to say, "You made your bed."
Nowadays I think it's harder for young women to learn how to make good choices, because--notwithstanding the empirical evidence you cite--popular culture more than ever before teaches bad choices. And there seem to be fewer good choices (good men!) to choose from.
The Jane Austen Guide will help change that.
Nov '11
Re: Follow the Real, Original "Rules" (Not for Manipulating Men--for Preserving Women's Freedom to Find Love)
We have many older (post-menopausal) single women friends. They are all well-educated. Most were married at some point. Some never married, but had a child out-of-wedlock. Some had a child or two, but then divorced. Some are childless.
Without exception, they have lost hope of having a longterm relationship with a man. The unmarried men their ages are either irredeemably single middle-aged adolescents or, having had their escapades, are shopping for an attractive younger women to have babies.
Most of these women are sad and angry about how things turned out. The most unhappy are those who "missed their chance" to have a child; they expect to grow old all alone, without anyone to love and to love them.
Re: Follow the Real, Original "Rules" (Not for Manipulating Men--for Preserving Women's Freedom to Find Love)
As Jane Austen knew, it's relationships that ultimately make you (especially if you're a woman) happy (or not) in this life. She could be a model for these women. It must have been heartbreaking for her not to marry & have children, but she still managed to build a happy (truly not bitter) life around the people (her sister, her nieces & nephews) she cared about.
Astonishing
We have many older (post-menopausal) single women friends. They are all well-educated. Most were married at some point. Some never married, but had a child out-of-wedlock. Some had a child or two, but then divorced. Some are childless.
Without exception, they have lost hope of having a longterm relationship with a man. The unmarried men their ages are either irredeemably single middle-aged adolescents or, having had their escapades, are shopping for an attractive younger women to have babies.
Most of these women are sad and angry about how things turned out. The most unhappy are those who "missed their chance" to have a child; they expect to grow old all alone, without anyone to love and to love them. · 15 minutes ago
Re: Follow the Real, Original "Rules" (Not for Manipulating Men--for Preserving Women's Freedom to Find Love)
Love how the thought experiment turned out! Thank you!
Ansonia: Re comment # 28 : If we woke up tomorrow and all the women in America had, overnight, decided they were going to run their love lives like Jane Austins heroines-- and if they stuck to it--the hostility between the sexes would be over in less than two months. All kinds of "issues" and "monsters" would be revealed as figments of unexamined assumptions, low impulse control and ill fed imaginations. These would melt away.Within less than two years, social workers would have almost nothing to do. Abortion clinics would be forced to close for lack of business. Self awareness, awareness of the character of others (and some shame) would dispel a lot of rage, resentment and self pity. Elizabeth Kantor, I got your book on kindle last night and I can't put it down. Before spring is over, I'll be getting the book for my daughter and my niece. · 2 hours ago
Edited 2 hours ago
Oct '10
Re: Follow the Real, Original "Rules" (Not for Manipulating Men--for Preserving Women's Freedom to Find Love)
Astonishing
And there seem to be fewer good choices (good men!) to choose from.
I really don't get what this is supposed to mean.
Re: Follow the Real, Original "Rules" (Not for Manipulating Men--for Preserving Women's Freedom to Find Love)
A couple (of the many) beefs I've got with The Rules (vs. the real, original Jane Austen rules):
Can women really have sexual relationships while staying emotionally detached? If they can, is it a good thing?
Do we want relationships of mutual manipulation, or of mutual integrity?
But the alternative to The Rules doesn't have to be let-it-all-hang-out honesty, either. Jane Austen has a better way!
EThompson
Elizabeth Kantor:
There are "the Rules" and similar schemes for manipulating men to get what you want, by playing hard to get.
The Rules, in the opinion of this dinosauriste, work. Fortunately, I am the daughter of a southern mother and didn't need a book to teach me
the basics!
Along with a wide swath of the Rico community, I too, am enjoying your contributions this week. Thanks! · 11 hours ago
Dec '11
Re: Follow the Real, Original "Rules" (Not for Manipulating Men--for Preserving Women's Freedom to Find Love)
I should clarify that my version of The Rules requires a committed, monogamous relationship before entering the realm of physical relations. That dreadful term "hooking up" has never been a part of the vocabulary!
And sometimes, in the beginning, a little manipulation does't hurt; it can be effective in establishing some key ground rules that help a relationship to thrive and prosper.
Elizabeth Kantor: A couple (of the many) beefs I've got with The Rules (vs. the real, original Jane Austen rules):
Can women really have sexual relationships while staying emotionally detached? If they can, is it a good thing?
Do we want relationships of mutual manipulation, or of mutual integrity?
But the alternative to The Rules doesn't have to be let-it-all-hang-out honesty, either. Jane Austen has a better way!
EThompson
Elizabeth Kantor:
There are "the Rules" and similar schemes for manipulating men to get what you want, by playing hard to get.
The Rules, in the opinion of this dinosauriste, work. Fortunately, I am the daughter of a southern mother and didn't need a book to teach me the basics!
Oct '10
Re: Follow the Real, Original "Rules" (Not for Manipulating Men--for Preserving Women's Freedom to Find Love)
One of the dirty secrets of life is that many men aren't capable of having sexual relationships while staying emotionally detached, either. They may form less of an attachment in a given period of time, but that doesn't mean they form none.
Again, people who can sleep around and remain emotionally healthy are relatively uncommon. More commonly, people do so because that's the cultural thing to do, but know it's not healthy for them.
Elizabeth Kantor: A couple (of the many) beefs I've got with The Rules (vs. the real, original Jane Austen rules):
Can women really have sexual relationships while staying emotionally detached? If they can, is it a good thing?
Oct '10
Re: Follow the Real, Original "Rules" (Not for Manipulating Men--for Preserving Women's Freedom to Find Love)
Elizabeth Kantor: Cannot agree with this. If you think you've got the truth, it's perfectly natural and right for you to want to share it. And whether it's harmful or not surely depends on the value of the ideas, not the # of people who hold them?
Joseph Eagar:
It's pretentious for a minority to preach their values to the majority, and very, very harmful. · 45 minutes ago
Edited 41 minutes ago
Apr 4 at 1:56pm
But if that minority makes up a significant portion of the political and social elite (at least in some parts of the country) it's another matter. Just think of all those horror stories of schools with grade-school sex education.