First they came for our guns....
While we honor our veterans today, let's also spare a thought for the virtues of an armed citizenry. Seventy-two years ago (November 9–10, 1938) the anti-Jewish attacks known as Kristallnacht, or the Night of Broken Glass, took place throughout Nazi Germany and parts of Austria.
What made Kristallnacht possible? For one thing, a sustained effort by the Nazi government to disarm all Jews in the period leading up to the attacks. The facts are laid out in this fascinating article by Stephen Halbrook in the St. Thomas Law Review (ht/Volokh ). A brief snippet:
Over a period of several weeks in October and November 1938, the Nazi government disarmed the German Jewish population. The process was carried out both by following a combination of legal forms enacted by the Weimar Republic and by sheer lawless violence. The Nazi hierarchy could now more comfortably deal with the Jewish question without fear of armed resistance by the victims.
It may be tempting to argue that the possession of firearms by the German Jews would have made no difference, either in the 1938 pogrom or later in the Holocaust, when the majority were deported and then eradicated in death camps. Yet this fatalistic view ignores that the Nazis themselves viewed armed Jews as sufficiently dangerous to their policies to place great emphasis on the need to disarm all Jews. In 1938, it was by no means certain that Jewish armed resistance movements could not develop, and even less certain that individual Jews would not use arms to resist arrest, deportation, or attacks by the Nazis.
Stalin and Pol Pot, incidentally, also moved to disarm their citizens before their reigns of terror. For those who invoke the rallying cry of "Never Again," -- and count me in -- it's useful to consider the role of an armed citizenry in resisting oppression.
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May '10
Re: First they came for our guns....
I'd love to hear your recommendations for weapons that are useful for both hunting and defense. I've been planning on buying my first rifle for years now, but always forget about it when the money arrives (I'm ashamed to admit I live hand-to-mouth at the moment). As an additional qualification, it should be a gun with an ammo type that is likely to be abundant in the event of a national disaster.
My old BB gun looks real enough with an old neighbor's hunting scope on it to scare criminals, but I long for more. I'm a Texan, afterall.
On a side note, I grew up nextdoor to a man who hunted all over the world in his glory days. I didn't realize it until I visited his son's house and saw the elephant's foot as a stool and the lion pelt draped over the couch. So I'm not far from an elephant gun, if the Chinese should cross the Bering Strait in style.
Nov '10
Re: First they came for our guns....
Mr. Freeman makes a good point.
I am surprised how little the press discusses the fact that the 2nd Amendment is in place specifically to give the citizenry the means to protect themselves from a tyrannical government, and overthrow it if necessary. Frankly, I think the press is afraid to broach the subject. Of all the unique things about our Constitution, perhaps the 2nd Amendment is the most unique part that separates it from all other governements in the world. After all, what other country on the planet has written into its founding documents the right of the people to defend themselves from, and presumeably overthrow, their own tyrannical government through violent means?
Edited on November 15, 2010 at 9:49pmJun '10
Re: First they came for our guns....
Well, Aaron, I'm glad to be of service. And I won't even hold the Texas thing against you.
For a dual-purpose rifle (I assume that you'll be hunting Texas whitetails and/or javelina, and defending a home from two-legged predators), you can't beat a Marlin 336, Winchester 94, or Mossberg 464. Chambered in .30-30 WCF it'll take down anything you could encounter south of the Red River. You should be able to find the Mossberg new for about $365, the Marlin used for about the same price, and good luck finding a Winchester 94 for less than $600 (they've been discontinued). If you're that worried about ammo availability, get a Marlin 1894C or Rossi/Puma M92 chambered in .357 Magnum/.38 Special. With good ammo selection you should have no problem with deer and hogs, you can shoot both .38 and .357 in the same gun, and if you stick with a 16" or 18" barrel it's handy enough for home defense. Either one of those guns will run you about $450 if you shop smartly.
Boomer Sooner.
Nov '10
Re: First they came for our guns....
Tangentially Relevant: If, as some people argue, the language of the Second Amendment only guarantees us the right to become soldiers, then this country's history of conscription (Civil War, WW!, WW2, Korea, Vietnam) would argue that it's a right we have to force people to enjoy.
May '10
Re: First they came for our guns....
Many thanks!
I take it bolt-action rifles are good for hunting but not so good for defense? What if I bought two guns: one for close quarters and one for range shooting? Would you change your recommendations if I also bought a pistol?
Jun '10
Re: First they came for our guns....
Ja, I believe that's right in line with the left-fascist ideology. Silly gun nazis.
"You vill now enjoy ze rights ve haf profided you! Enjoy zem now!"
Jun '10
Re: First they came for our guns....
Correctamundo. Bolt actions are slow to operate (relatively speaking) and require fine motor skill to cycle correctly, which a person just doesn't have in high-adrenaline situations. Ideally, you would want a semi-automatic short rifle for home defense, such as an AR-15 style carbine. Those are a little pricey if you're on a limited budget, though, so your best bet within the parameters you've set is a lever-action in .357 Mag.
If you can afford to do so, by all means get both. I would suggest going used, but if you have the money, go for the gusto! You can't beat the new Savage rifles. They're accurate as all get out and cheap, to boot. For a handgun I suggest either a Glock 19 or a Ruger SP101. First thing, though, is to figure out what you need and search for what fits you. Then: Get some training!
Aaron Miller: Many thanks!
I take it bolt-action rifles are good for hunting but not so good for defense? What if I bought two guns: one for close quarters and one for range shooting?? · Nov 12 at 2:20pm
Aug '10
Re: First they came for our guns....
In early November 2000, I was returning to San Francisco from New Orleans and a Society for Neuroscience Conference during which we awakened to the Gore challenge of the Presidential election results. I was weary, especially after being subjected all week long to inane conversations about how Gore must win. On the return flight, a neurologist and I were chatting when we stopped in DFW and picked up an off shore oil rigger who sat in the seat between us. We all started talking about America and guns. The oil rigger assured the other fellow that, though he once had a semi-automatic rifle, he wised up and realized how silly it was: you can't hunt with it. I gently, but I suppose sarcastically enough, pointed out that the Second Amendment...it’s not about hunting ducks. I recall the neurologist spitting out his martini and a silence falling around us. Finally, peace, quiet and the comforting roar of jet engines.
Aug '10
Re: First they came for our guns....
Blakes7th (b.t.w., is that as in William Blake?), this is late notice, but there is a big, BIG gun show in Tulsa starting later this morning, November 13th through the 14th. We are not to advertize here on Ricochet, but I think I can tell you that if you search on "guns" and "Tulsa," this will pop up. Happy hunting.
Edited on November 13, 2010 at 8:00amAug '10
Re: First they came for our guns....
Aaron, I am printing out Casey Taylor's recommendations for myself and will be doing future shopping with it in mind. I am with you on budget consciousness. A starting strategy that some folks opt for is a "small" handgun for concealed carry in the pocket (e.g., a Walther PPK or a Kel-Tec .380) and a very inexpensive, short-barreled shotgun solely for home defense (check big box stores for sales). You know, a 9 mm, hollow-point round can do some damage. Depending on the kind of work and dress required of you, such a small gun may be all that is practical to preserve concealability. I say having a small gun on you nearly all of the time is much better than a giant cannon that you tire of arming up with--or are restricted from doing so. A third stage for you then might be a large caliber, always-go-bang revolver for the vehicle or winter clothing (assuming concealed carry permit). I commonly wear a sports jacket, so a holstered, large semi-automatic pistol becomes feasible.
Jun '10
Re: First they came for our guns....
Good points, David, and thank you! I commonly carry a Kel-Tec P3AT in my motorcycle vest and when wearing very light clothing. Kel-Tec's are exceptional values and the company has excellent customer service. Testament to the quality of their guns is that you will hardly ever see them in pawn shops.
That said, I don't think that very small, very light guns are good for new shooters. Great for concealability, not so great for taking out to the range. Anyone who carries has to be comfortable running the gun efficiently; that equals range time. Compact with a little bit of heft would work best for Aaron, but certainly nothing smaller than an SP101 if he goes the revolver route or the PPK if he chooses an auto. I'm a huge fan of little guns, but they can be quite a handful. Haw haw haw.
Something to look into, Aaron, if you're not comfortable diving headlong into the gun world, is to buy a good .22 pistol. Inexpensive, cheap to shoot, and you can get really good and really comfortable with handguns before you move up to something bigger. Same goes for a rifle.
Aug '10
Re: First they came for our guns....
Casey, yes, I see this and agree that Aaron and Blakes7th should consider what you are advising them here. We are fortunate where I live to have some nice gun shops & ranges. At my favorite, one can try just about any style gun if you buy the ammo. (It's like going to a candy store guys--and gals.) So, for the pure sake of shooting, I pick a S&W revolver. Beautiful simplicity is a Bang! Other times, I practice with a larger semi-automatic for the reasons you cited related to recoil and its firepower utility when it can be carried concealed. And to get along with my everywhere concealable friend, I make sure to shoot my Kel-Tec. I do not know, perhaps I am becoming insensate (insensible, insentient or insensitive), the kick of a little gun just does not bug me much now after that very first day I tried one.
Aug '10
Re: First they came for our guns....
Oh oh, I just had one of my brilliant ideas: a Ricochet Gun MeetUp Event (Wait, what is wrong with that title...?) What do you say everybody, I'm thinking I would love to have Casey give us a daylong tutorial. How about you all? It would be a blast (really, I am not trying to do that...it is testimony to the fact that humans, males in particular, love going ballistic...see, shoot, I did it again...)
Jun '10
Re: First they came for our guns....
Totally. Let me know when.