Ferhnstrom: Romney Agrees With Obama, Mandate Not A Tax
Just a couple of posts below, John Marzan complained about the advice Romney was getting from Eric "Etch-a-Sketch" Fehrnstrom. This after Rupert Murdoch said that Romney needed to shake up his campaign if he wants to win. This exchange from MSNBC this morning would seem to bolster their argument:
TODD: The governor does not believe the mandate is a tax — that’s what you’re saying?
FEHRNSTROM: The governor believes what we put in place in Massachusetts was a penalty and he disagrees with the Court’s ruling that the mandate was a tax. [...]
TODD: But he agrees with the president that it is not — and he believes that you should not call the tax penalty a tax, you should call it a penalty or a fee or a fine?
FEHRNSTROM: That’s correct. But the president also needs to be held accountable for his contradictory statements. He has described it variously as a penalty and as a tax. He needs to reconcile those two very different statements.
Well, that will convince voters of the two candidates' differences, right? You can watch the whole painful thing here:
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Feb '11
Re: Ferhnstrom: Romney Agrees With Obama, Mandate Not A Tax
Fehrnstrom needs to go.
That Romney still employs Mr. Etch-a-Sketch is exactly the sort of thing that inclines me to think he will a Roberts-esque failure as a President.
Either Fehrnstrom is misrepresenting what Romney actually believes- which should get him fired immediately- or Romney actually believes what Fehrnstrom said- and Fehrnstrom doesn't understand that he should never ever undercut his boss.
As a campaign employee apparently paid to give interviews- you know, a spokesman- he should have spoken different words to explain what Romney believes. Words that don't make it sound like Romney agrees with Obama and Pelosi, even if Romney does.
Either Fehrnstrom doesn't understand that, or he simply can't do any better. In neither case should he remain in the employment of the Romney campaign.
In 1980 Ronald Reagan fired his campaign manager John Sears, and it worked out well. I know Fehrnstrom isn't quite at that level but Romney should still profit from Reagan's example.
Apr '11
Re: Ferhnstrom: Romney Agrees With Obama, Mandate Not A Tax
I've heard many people differentiating a penalty from a tax by saying that the later is merely an economic punishment and you can't be thrown in jain for it, But - unless I'm mistaken - you can most certainly be thrown in jail for tax evasion, right?
So if I refuse to pay my non-complience tax, there are many steps they can take to get it from me - withhold tax refunds, garnish wages, etc. but ultimately, I could end up in prison.
The more I think about Robert's tortured legalese playing games with people's lives the more angry I get. Can Congress pass a law stating the Chief Justice of the United States is no longer eligible for a cushy government health plan and instead must suffer with the satan sandwich he so flippantly consigned to the rest of us?
May '10
Re: Ferhnstrom: Romney Agrees With Obama, Mandate Not A Tax
Cylon: I don't think the "largest tax increase in history" angle is really going to play.
The figure I heard is 4 million taxpayers would be affected. I would love to know the reasoning behind reaching that number--does it rely on a static analysis of those without insurance who are not Medicaid-eligible? That means the number is way off because of all the companies that will be dumping their insurance.
Of course, those who remain with private insurance but have their premiums hiked by two-digit percentage figures wont be getting "tax increases"; just "private tax increases."
Mar '11
Re: Ferhnstrom: Romney Agrees With Obama, Mandate Not A Tax
I had it all figured out: I could hold my nose with my left hand and pull the "Romney" lever with my right. But if his surrogates keep this up, I will need help from all you good Ricochet folks with Yoga insights on how I might manage the voting machine while using both hands to hold my nose. As I say in every email I send these days:
A vote for "anybody but Romney" or a refusal to vote is a vote to re-elect Obama.
So far as I can see we can't avoid the coming cliff with Obama, and Romney is only likely to pull us back far enough to re-group and re-think. And maybe react next election cycle early enough to actually select a nominee who can get this Great American Project back on track. Between holding my breath and holding my nose I'm not holding out much hope for a refreshing whiff of realism from our elected rulers between 2012 and 2016.
May '10
Re: Ferhnstrom: Romney Agrees With Obama, Mandate Not A Tax
Two strikes and Fehrnstrom should be out. When you're handed a huge club to fight with, you don't just toss it away.
Apr '12
Re: Ferhnstrom: Romney Agrees With Obama, Mandate Not A Tax
Romney can't call it a tax or else he will have to admit to raising taxes in Mass.
May '10
Re: Ferhnstrom: Romney Agrees With Obama, Mandate Not A Tax
Eric F. not only said what was politically expedient, he said what is true.
Taxes are, according to MOST people, something you pay when you consume/do something; not when you don't consume/do something. So, it's not a tax (haven't read the Decision yet). Moreover, if Obamacare is a tax, then Romneycare is a tax--even if Romney vetoed part of the "penalty/tax" that came into existence in MA.
Does siding with the SCOTUS dissent preclude Romney from accusing Obama of lying about "raising taxes"? That's the big question. I'm not sure.
Aug '11
Re: Ferhnstrom: Romney Agrees With Obama, Mandate Not A Tax
I'm despondent.
Feb '12
Re: Ferhnstrom: Romney Agrees With Obama, Mandate Not A Tax
It's a bit as if the GOP nominated Douglas in 1860.
Oct '10
Re: Ferhnstrom: Romney Agrees With Obama, Mandate Not A Tax
Romney should fire ferhnstrom, or fire himself.
Oct '10
Re: Ferhnstrom: Romney Agrees With Obama, Mandate Not A Tax
this is actually great opportunity/excuse for romney to finally accept murdoch's advise and get rid of etch a sketch. throw fehrn under the bus like jeremiah wright!!!!
then he needs to listen to krauthammer (today) on how to deal with this.
Feb '11
Re: Ferhnstrom: Romney Agrees With Obama, Mandate Not A Tax
John Marzan
Romney should fire ferhnstrom, or fire himself.
The sad thing is that Romney turned out to be the best candidate of the people who actually ran for the office.
But even saying that he still seems to lack something major as a candidate.
Worse, it turned out Mr. Etch-a-Sketch wasn't some mere hapless spokesman as I wrongly assumed.
He's a "senior" Romney advisor. So perhaps the John Sears example applies more than I thought. But in any case it is incredible that Romney lets Mr. Etch-a-Sketch give public interviews.
Romney is trying to be a successful politician. This requires him to win votes, which requires him to win arguments and thereby convince people to vote for him.
When conservatives see Mr. Etch-a-Sketch making an argument that Romney agrees with Barry Obama- this is bad, politically.
Too many conservatives don't really trust Romney now. He shouldn't give us reason any more reason to distrust him.
Nov '11
Re: Ferhnstrom: Romney Agrees With Obama, Mandate Not A Tax
Mollie Hemingway, Ed.
John Murdoch: Ahem.
Uncle Rupert's name is spelled "Murdoch," not "Murdock."
Yours, on behalf of the Ricochet Ad Hoc Steering Committee on Properly Spelling Scots Names,
John · 17 minutes ago
Whoopsie! Fixed. Thank you. · 20 hours ago
If we're going to call out misspelled names, then I will note that Etch-a-Sketch Man's name is Fehrnstrom.
May '10
Re: Ferhnstrom: Romney Agrees With Obama, Mandate Not A Tax
You--the plural vous--arent thinking very clearly.
Think a couple of moves ahead. If Romney argues Obamacare is a tax, for most people, and for Obama advertising and campaigning, Romneycare=Obamacare, and aa huge campaign issue largely neutralized.
If, however Obamacare is a penalty, Romney has a cleaner path to arguing state v federal Tenth Amendment distinctions. Plus, Romney can hammer on Obama being untrustworthy and duplicitous--flip flopping--between Congress and the SCOTUS.
Plus, you want Romney siding with the liberal SCOTUS Justices+betraying Roberts?
In addition, a huge chorus of other politicians and SuperPACs will be calling it a tax anyway.
Plus, if a bill passes the Senate with 51 votes, Romney will be "Constitutionally pre-approved" to sign it and will.
Edited on July 3, 2012 at 5:21pmOct '10
Re: Ferhnstrom: Romney Agrees With Obama, Mandate Not A Tax
ParisParamus:
Think a couple of moves ahead. If Romney argues Obamacare is a tax, for most people, and for Obama advertising and campaigning, Romneycare=Obamacare, and aa huge campaign issue largely neutralized.
How many conservative you know support romney care? and who cares about Romneytax, majority want to stop the BIGGER Obamatax from being implemented after 2012.
listen to krauthammer, he offers romney a way out of his stupidity.
Apr '11
Re: Ferhnstrom: Romney Agrees With Obama, Mandate Not A Tax
John Marzan
ParisParamus:
Think a couple of moves ahead. If Romney argues Obamacare is a tax..... Romneycare=Obamacare......
How many conservative you know support romney care? and who cares about Romneytax, majority want to stop the BIGGER Obamatax from being implemented after 2012.
listen to krauthammer, he offers romney a way out of his stupidity.
While I'm a fan of Krauthammer, it wasn't a hard call, and it wasn't Ferhnstrom's call. Romney's claim not to have raised taxes is a key part of his stump speech. Under the Massachusetts constitution it's explicitly authorized as a penalty and is not a tax, but explaining the Massachusetts constitution to people is an exercise in pain.
He'll probably have to dial that back, but for Mitt to declare it a tax would be a flip flop, and his campaign is keen to make sure that its positions today are the same as they have been for decades, as the Life conversion has been turned into a universal demonstration of untrustworthiness.
Conservatives who disagreed with Roberts calling for resignations for disagreeing with Roberts should be ashamed of themselves.
Jan '12
Re: Ferhnstrom: Romney Agrees With Obama, Mandate Not A Tax
Romney poses a Hobbesian choice for Obama. The mandate is either an unconstitutional penalty OR a constitutional tax. There are no other choices. Romney believes it is an unconstitutional penalty and not a constitutional tax. President Obama insists that it is not a tax (Romney agrees), so Mr. Obamas it is..... what? Admittedly this may be too nuanced a position for the political sound-bite commentary that prevails in an election - but it is indeed a logical and compelling argument that speaks favorably of Romney. Both men insist it is not a tax - both men ergo believe it is an unconstitutional penalty (the only other legal choice). Romney unequivocally would repeal it because it is unconstitutional - President Obama equally unequivocally would continue to subject the American people to an unconstitutional mandate