Expect No Civility...
...as we face this:
Ignore the text. It's skewed in its perspective -- deficits went up under Reagan, down under Clinton, up under Bush -- but that's essentially accurate. And irrelevant. The boomers are retiring; the promissory notes are coming due. The picture tells the story.
I simply can't imagine we're going to be able to make the hard, nasty, grinding choices we're going to have to make -- and soon -- without a whole lot of nastiness.
And I'm also not sure that's a bad thing. Civility has its place -- on Ricochet, for example. But there's no way to shrink that big blue dot without throwing some elbows, a lot of noise, and an epic amount of shouting. That's the only way we're going to know that it's for real: because it hurts enough to make someone squeal and fight dirty.
So, here's a vote for partisan, nasty incivility. I want Congress to be a place of discord and controversy. I don't want to have them reach consensus, or agree to disagree, or split the difference. That's how we got that big blue dot in the first place.
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Comments :
Jul '10
Re: Expect No Civility...
Why is that dot blue? We all know debt is red. Who created this chart?
May '10
Re: Expect No Civility...
CoolHand
Alright, but who is going to do all that and how will you do it exactly? A blank sheet? Won't happen. The implementation of the drastic measures you propose will not be done by elected officials or political appointees. It will be done by career employees. Employees that have no incentive to help conservatives, particularly since they are targets of conservative animus. The GOP missed an opportunity 20 or 30 years ago to infiltrate the federal employee sector and reform their way out of a job. But they ceded the ground to the Dems. Conservatives acted like infantrymen, instead of generals. Now, they're outnumbered. All these newly elected Congressmen have a huge learning curve. And the agencies you site are bare bones as it is, but even if you closed them, it would still be a drop in the spending bucket. Defense spending is the biggest expense by far, and it won't be the first time I mention on here that the DoD employs over half of all federal employees. If people are serious, truly serious, about spending reduction you have to decide between being a deficit hawk or a national defense hawk.
Re: Expect No Civility...
cdor
Beat me to it CH. Pretty tough talk for a squish. Sounds like the real Rob is coming out of the closet. · Jan 14 at 1:54pm
I know. Weird, right? What's happening to me? I think you all are a bad influence.
Dec '10
Re: Expect No Civility...
Karen
Alright, but who is going to do all that and how will you do it exactly? A blank sheet? Won't happen. The implementation of the drastic measures you propose will not be done by elected officials or political appointees. . .
. . . Defense spending is the biggest expense by far, and it won't be the first time I mention on here that the DoD employs over half of all federal employees. If people are serious, truly serious, about spending reduction you have to decide between being a deficit hawk or a national defense hawk. · Jan 14 at 5:14pm
Where do people pick up this debate tactic of defining the objective and then preemptively surrendering it?
Why can't elected officials and appointees make the required cuts? Are they in charge or not?
You assume that the fight is lost before it has begun, so you ratchet back your expectations and then bemoan the fact that we're hopelessly screwed.
Newsflash: The Colonists were hopelessly screwed in 1775 as well. Guess how that turned out.
The US Navy was decimated and hopelessly screwed in Jan of 1942. Guess how that turned out.
Nothing is certain until it has happened.
Also, entitlement spending far and away outstrips the DoD, but leaving that aside, why not trim the fat at the DoD?
One can still be a defense hawk while insisting that the DoD not simply light money on fire to watch it burn.
However, in diametric opposition to the usual DC fashion, all DoD cuts must come from the butt end of the spear. It is entirely possible that drastic reductions in back end staff could be made without the men on the pointy end ever noticing that anything has happened.
You don't start trimming fat at the DoD by selling nuclear carriers for scrap, or canceling all the fifth generation fighter contracts, or stopping the production of 5.56 NATO ammunition. You start by halving every general's support staff, and forcing every agency inside the Pentagon to scale back their employment by 10-20%, starting at the top and working their way down. The rank and file are the last to go, and the war fighters and the logistics personnel on the ground should never even know anything happened.
It can be done, but you've got to be willing to make the argument.
Edited on Jan 14, 2011 at 5:34pmJun '10
Re: Expect No Civility...
Former governor of New Mexico, Gary Johnson, has declared that our nation needs to cut federal spending by 43% in the next two years. Trust me, he's a serious presidential candidate even if he hasn't yet announced. And if Gary gets a presidential veto pen in hand, you can count on him to keep his promise. I'll see him at the Santa Fe Tea Party rally on Tuesday and report back.
Jun '10
Re: Expect No Civility...
Rob Long
cdor
Beat me to it CH. Pretty tough talk for a squish. Sounds like the real Rob is coming out of the closet. · Jan 14 at 1:54pm
I know. Weird, right? What's happening to me? I think you all are a bad influence. · Jan 14 at 5:17pm
I've been appointed by the Ricochet Underground to make the final appeal in your defense when the purge comes. Trust me, Rob, I'm working hard on this. My name will go down in history next to Mark Anthony. Your name . . . probably not so much, but you had a good run. Can I have your fancy Japanese toilet upon your demise?
Jul '10
Re: Expect No Civility...
First..... Booyah! Change requires energy, energized people tend to get, shall we say, enthusiastic. Undue devotion to civility breeds appeasement.
Second..... hard decisions demand a "simplistic" approach. I am fond of "turning back the clock" . Pick a date in the near past - say 2000. Make it a goal to return federal spending to 2000 levels across the board. Was life so tough in 2000? Pick a "simple" goal, and have the fortitude to pursue it relentlessly. Simple. And hard. The only way to make it work.
May '10
Re: Expect No Civility...
CoolHand
Karen
I don't believe all is lost, but we need strategy change. You'd be right if you grouped all entitlement agencies together, but I thought we were talking about specific agencies.
There is a good bit of scaling back taking place at DoD - JFCOM and BTA. Gates released an August memo proposing reductions. DoD will have to be more efficient. It can't maintain an expensive health system like Tricare and stay competitive for the next 50 years. That's one objective of a national healthcare system (not saying I agree) -capture all military, dependents and retirees.
My point is that Conservatives have excluded themselves from the implementation of policy, not because they lost elections, but because they didn't insert themselves in the gov't machine. In this bureaucracy without profit motive, incentive is dictated by the founding values and principles of our country. There are some workers who choose employment with the federal gov't, because they want a stable, secure, and profitable future for the US. But we are in desperate need for more. Our wars were fought and won, because patriots answered the call of their country when it was most in need.
Feb '10
Re: Expect No Civility...
Unfortunately, Conservatives who insert themselves into the government machine often cease to be conservative after some time.
Oct '10
Re: Expect No Civility...
Lady Kurobara:
In fact, I will go as far as saying that politics is at its best when an outright brawl breaks out:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qZ-hNVfTZqw&feature=related
Sublime. Even the women mix it up. God bless the Taiwanese.
Jan 14 at 2:14pm
Don't forget the Aussies. Ron Casey sure knows how to throw a good donnybrook!
Feb '10
Re: Expect No Civility...
CoolHand
Karen
Alright, but who is going to do all that and how will you do it exactly? A blank sheet? ...
<358 words snipped out>
... It can be done, but you've got to be willing to make the argument. · Jan 14 at 5:27pm
CoolHand, have you found a bug in our system that lets you post more than 200 words?
Dec '10
Re: Expect No Civility...
Busy System Admin
CoolHand
Karen
Alright, but who is going to do all that and how will you do it exactly? A blank sheet? ...
<358 words snipped out>
... It can be done, but you've got to be willing to make the argument. · Jan 14 at 5:27pm
CoolHand, have you found a bug in our system that lets you post more than 200 words? · Jan 14 at 8:57pm
I was wondering about how that happened...
And now I know.
Edited on Jan 15, 2011 at 5:52amSep '10
Re: Expect No Civility...
Rob Long
cdor
Beat me to it CH. Pretty tough talk for a squish. Sounds like the real Rob is coming out of the closet. · Jan 14 at 1:54pm
I know. Weird, right? What's happening to me? I think you all are a bad influence. · Jan 14 at 5:17pm
Has anyone ever pinned down precisely how "right of center" Ricochet is supposed to be?
Jun '10
Re: Expect No Civility...
I've always contended and support others who have said this that we must cut entire departments. As soon as the economy ever starts climbing back up and tax revenues do the same, the existing departments begin the re-funding all over again. We'd be back to square one with that big fat blue dot.
You can't re-fund something that isn't there. These are HARD decisions that will take unprecedented will from politicians and citizens. The squealing will be nearly unbearable, but I see no other way around it. Easy example would be to try killing the EPA. I can't even imagine what wailing and gnashing of teeth would happen if anyone tried that. I'm game but it will be brutal.
Jul '10
Re: Expect No Civility...
Robert Promm:
NPR/CPB and NEA are chump change.
And if they cannot cut Chump Change, there's little hope they'll cut anything serious.
Jul '10
Re: Expect No Civility...
CoolHand
Where do people pick up this debate tactic of defining the objective and then preemptively surrendering it?
Why can't elected officials and appointees make the required cuts? Are they in charge or not?
Back in 1993, when HillaryCare was all the Rage, Governer Mike Lowry handed Washington it's own mini version of HillaryCare.
Once passed, it was a DONE DEAL. No way to repeal it. Nope, it was fait accompli. Period, Fini, See Ya Later!
That was, of course, until an initiative was put on the ballot in 1994 to repeal it instantly!
Outspent 20 to 1 in the campaign leading up to the vote, the measure passed 70 to 29. (Can you Say Epic Fail?)
Dec '10
Re: Expect No Civility...
Busy System Admin
CoolHand, have you found a bug in our system that lets you post more than 200 words? · Jan 14 at 8:57pm
Why yes, yes I have.
It appears that I am not alone in this discovery.
You can't stop the signal!
/FireFly reference, for those here of the Nerdly persuasion.
Dec '10
Re: Expect No Civility...
Jaydee_007
Once passed, it was a DONE DEAL. No way to repeal it. Nope, it was fait accompli. Period, Fini, See Ya Later!
That was, of course, until an initiative was put on the ballot in 1994 to repeal it instantly!
Outspent 20 to 1 in the campaign leading up to the vote, the measure passed 70 to 29. (Can you Say Epic Fail?) · Jan 15 at 1:08am
Exactly.
Everything is impossible until someone does it.
I just tire of hearing that we're doomed, the bureaucracy is too big, the apparatchiks too entrenched, the hill too steep, the fight too hard, etc, so we'd better just give up and tinker around the edges and try to streamline what's already there and impossible to change.
I, like you, do not buy this premise for a moment.
That argument is the favorite refrain of cowards, bureaucrats, and pessimists.
It's not going to be easy, but it CAN be done if we make the case, over and over, to anyone who will listen, until it sticks.
But none of that can happen until we stop quitting before we've even begun.
Edited on Jan 15, 2011 at 1:25amJun '10
Re: Expect No Civility...
CoolHand
The Colonists were hopelessly screwed in 1775 as well. Guess how that turned out.
The US Navy was decimated and hopelessly screwed in Jan of 1942. Guess how that turned out.
Paraphrased:
Bluto: Over? Did you say "over"? Nothing is over until we decide it is! Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor? Hell no!
Bluto: And it ain't over now. 'Cause when the goin' gets tough... the tough get goin'! Who's with me? Let's go! --- What happened to the Delta I used to know? Where's the spirit? Where's the guts, huh? "Ooh, we're afraid to go with you Bluto, we might get in trouble. I'm not gonna take this...
Otter: Bluto's right. Psychotic, but absolutely right. We gotta take these bastards. Now we could do it with conventional weapons that could take years and cost millions of lives. No, I think we have to go all out. I think that this situation absolutely requires a really futile and stupid gesture be done on somebody's part.
Bluto: We're just the guys to do it.
D-Day: Let's do it.
Bluto: LET'S DO IT!!
Sep '10
Re: Expect No Civility...
Here via Lady Ks thread, sorry I'm late.
First, I believe that Rob Long is not the lone moderate squish who is moving rightward in response to the lefts overreach. This is happening everywhere, (see 2010 elections, tea party) . Obama has just had to step in and stop the self inflicted wound the left gave itself over Tucson. We are winning, although things will become more difficult as the left can now muddy the waters with blaming the GOP led congress for all manner of things, and the 112th certainly will not get everything perfect.
Tactics and strategy should be to pick battles they can win now. (Which ones are beyond my scope). Strategy should be to win the White House in 2012 by being careful in these next two years, and then then make bold changes once we have a good (I hope) President and gains in both Houses.
Eliminate whole federal drains on tax revenue like the Dept of Energy etc.
The left will scream at incremental changes as loud as they will scream at sweeping ones, and sweeping changes are easier to defend with sweeping defenses. That is what the left does.