Expect No Civility...
...as we face this:
Ignore the text. It's skewed in its perspective -- deficits went up under Reagan, down under Clinton, up under Bush -- but that's essentially accurate. And irrelevant. The boomers are retiring; the promissory notes are coming due. The picture tells the story.
I simply can't imagine we're going to be able to make the hard, nasty, grinding choices we're going to have to make -- and soon -- without a whole lot of nastiness.
And I'm also not sure that's a bad thing. Civility has its place -- on Ricochet, for example. But there's no way to shrink that big blue dot without throwing some elbows, a lot of noise, and an epic amount of shouting. That's the only way we're going to know that it's for real: because it hurts enough to make someone squeal and fight dirty.
So, here's a vote for partisan, nasty incivility. I want Congress to be a place of discord and controversy. I don't want to have them reach consensus, or agree to disagree, or split the difference. That's how we got that big blue dot in the first place.
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Comments :
Jul '10
Re: Expect No Civility...
Broken Record Alert!
There is one very simple way to tell if the Hard Work is actually going to happen!
Will the GOP defund NPR/CPB and NEA?
It's that simple. If they cannot defund either of those, they will not do what it takes to address the issue of the Big Blue Dot!
Dec '10
Re: Expect No Civility...
Careful Rob, you're gonna get your RINO squish card revoked.
Jun '10
Re: Expect No Civility...
Beat me to it CH. Pretty tough talk for a squish. Sounds like the real Rob is coming out of the closet.
Dec '10
Re: Expect No Civility...
"But there's no way to shrink that big blue dot without throwing some elbows, a lot of noise, and an epic amount of shouting."
OH! I was doing some woodwork and my glasses were dusty. I thought that said "shooting", and that didn't sound like Rob.
Oct '10
Re: Expect No Civility...
At least the chart clearly shows that Obama's spending drastically overshadows Bush's spending. I've already noticed that the budget deficit numbers during his term seem relatively small compared to the current deficits.
Aug '10
Re: Expect No Civility...
Excuse me, but where the keys to the bloody axe closet ?
Nov '10
Re: Expect No Civility...
Jaydee is correct. The cuts have to be bold. They have to butcher sacred cows. They have to eliminate whole cabinet departments. And, yes, they have to cut into military spending.
NPR/CPB and NEA are chump change.
The post office must be cut free entirely - zero subsidy, sink or swin in competition with Fedex and UPS.
The EPA and the department of energy need to go.
The federal department of education needs to go.
HUD needs to go.
Department of Transportation needs to go.
Health and Human services needs to be reduced to its original mandate. Milton Friedman would say the whole thing needs to go.
Department of Commerce needs to go.
We do this right and we'll be back to the original four which are the only ones that make sense anyway.
They have to do this -- no guts no glory!
Nov '10
Re: Expect No Civility...
Civility is extremely over-rated. Public debate is supposed to be cantankerous. Unless people get angry and speak frankly, it is hard to tell where anyone honestly stands on an issue. I love the fact that members of Parliament can openly hoot and jeer at each other.
In fact, I will go as far as saying that politics is at its best when an outright brawl breaks out:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qZ-hNVfTZqw&feature=related
Sublime. Even the women mix it up. God bless the Taiwanese.
It should also be noted that, for the Left, civility is nothing but a useful instrument of hypocrisy. They make the loudest calls for civility, yet practise it the least.
Sep '10
Re: Expect No Civility...
I agree with your sentiments completely. But as I see it you have had the Dems and GOP on one side and no one on the other. Growing the government slowly and growing it quickly are not exactly polar oposites.
Aug '10
Re: Expect No Civility...
Here! Here!
I don't know if the fisticuffs of the Taiwanese are required but some good old fashion verbal jousting would do wonders in Congress.
This whole "let's be civil" thing is merely a desperate political ploy by the Dems to get back in power - the flailing of a wounded beast.
Civility to the Left simply means we don't protest while they rob our wallet and ravish our rights...
Jun '10
Re: Expect No Civility...
I have no major heartburn with a little incivility, if it is based on substantive matters as opposed to scurrilous attacks. They can argue all they wish within the halls of Congress about the breadth and bane of the big blue dot, but "civil" pressure must also come from without if rational legislation dealing with the deficit is to come forth. If it is true that some 70% are opposed to raising the debt ceiling, then perhaps there is hope.
The last thing I want is for the GOP to get feisty, put on a show of a "fight," and in the end kowtow and say, "Well, we tried." These are existential matters. It would be nice if the political class would wake up to that reality.
Edited on Jan 14, 2011 at 2:45pmMay '10
Re: Expect No Civility...
I appreciate your point, but we first have to know enough about how things work to discuss the most effective and lasting reductions. The fact is, most citizens don't have much idea of the nuts and bolts of government expenditures. Sure, they can argue in broad strokes, but even here I find most people unwilling to get into the weeds. I'll give you an example. This is how DoD buys weapons systems, among other things. Anybody want to take a stab at reforming this? The bureaucracy is bigger than you think. So, you will eventually have to work with the people who have a clue about it, which might require a little diplomacy. We have to become participants in the active reduction of spending and waste instead of only spectators cheering and jeering from the sidelines.
Nov '10
Re: Expect No Civility...
Even Mark Steyn agrees with that point.
May '10
Re: Expect No Civility...
Where was the civility when the Dems were cramming ObamaCare down our throats?
Oh, yes, as usual, it was all on the Democratic side, right? It was only those who resisted the cramming who were being uncivil, right?
As to the debt problem, yes it's structural. So unless we have drastic changes, we're toast. I just came across this excellent report by Deloitte called Red Ink Rising. Highly recommended.
One of the points they address is the political aspect of the problem. Democracies have a structural problem in that everyone wants to take the credit for good choices and no one wants to take the blame for bad/hard choices. This is true of any kind of government but especially true in democracies. Unless we find a way to address that structural problem of governance, we will not be able to solve the problem.
So yes, I was a bit naive to say defaulting on the debt would prevent lenders from lending to the government. I still believe we will default sooner or later (preferably sooner in my book), but yes, we also need fundamental changes in the way we deal with money and debt as a democracy.
Dec '10
Re: Expect No Civility...
Robert Promm: Jaydee is correct. The cuts have to be bold. They have to butcher sacred cows. They have to eliminate whole cabinet departments. And, yes, they have to cut into military spending.
NPR/CPB and NEA are chump change.
The post office must be cut free entirely - zero subsidy, sink or swin in competition with Fedex and UPS.
The EPA and the department of energy need to go.
The federal department of education needs to go.
HUD needs to go.
Department of Transportation needs to go.
Health and Human services needs to be reduced to its original mandate. Milton Friedman would say the whole thing needs to go.
Department of Commerce needs to go.
Now we're talking. Let's make these big cuts before we start taking a chain saw and hatchet to defense. The knee-jerk reflex to cut defense first before even considering the Departments of Everything Else is a losing strategy. Even some conservatives and libertarians jump on the "cut defense first" bandwagon. So what usually happens? Defense gets cut, in a "bipartisan effort", and nothing else.
After the Departments of Everything Else have been cut to the bone, then look at defense cuts.
Edited on Jan 14, 2011 at 3:27pmNov '10
Re: Expect No Civility...
Lady Kurobara: In fact, I will go as far as saying that politics is at its best when an outright brawl breaks out:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qZ-hNVfTZqw&feature=related
Sublime. Even the women mix it up. God bless the Taiwanese.
It is not just the Taiwanese. Here is a spirited round from India:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UXiIXHpTNK4
From Bolivia:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LjMeQoIq36c&feature=related
From Korea:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vCZTkk-JxOo&feature=related
In Ukraine, they use eggs and smoke bombs!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SfCRyLlyqJI
Letting off steam is healthy. A lot more people would watch C-SPAN if our congressmen threw chairs at each other once in a while.
Dec '10
Re: Expect No Civility...
You don't need to get down in the weeds with the bureaucrats to make meaningful cuts.
Instead of wading through that swamp and trying to talk people into goring their own oxen, you simply replace the entire structure of acquisition. What is there now is bloated and ossified. It cannot be reformed in-place, so don't.
Start from a blank sheet. Justify every expenditure from scratch. Even projects currently in the pipe need to be defended. Though the in-progress projects should have some sort of grandfathered status that makes them easier to defend, if for no other reason than it is more wasteful to throw away 10 billion worth of previous work just to cut 40 million from the current budget (like scraping a nuclear carrier to save the money spent on painting it each year).
That's going to take a lot of work, and piss off a lot of people, but it must be done, in every department.
Most departments should have to defend their very existence. FDA, EPA, Dept of Ed, Dept of Energy, Dept of Ag, Dept of Int, BLM, and on and on and on. Purge as much of the alphabet soup as possible.
We need to work with a cleaver first, then we can break out the scalpels and get "down in the weeds", at least what of them remains.
Edited on Jan 14, 2011 at 3:52pmNov '10
Re: Expect No Civility...
The basic problem is this:
In order to accomplish anything meaningful, we need a Republican President right now, but we are stuck with a Marxist nincompoop for the next two years. That is critical because government spending, regulation and over-reach is now expanding exponentially by legislative mandate. A lot of damage will done to our country over the next 24 months and most of it will be irreparable. Time favors the Democrats and the progressive agenda. All they have to do is hunker down and play defense.
As conservatives, our message should be: "Faster, please!"
Dec '10
Re: Expect No Civility...
I would love, were I Emperor for the Day, to wield the axe on government departments.
I do fear the outcome with millions of government employees, kicked to the curb.
Dec '10
Re: Expect No Civility...
CJRun: I would love, were I Emperor for the Day, to wield the axe on government departments.
I do fear the outcome with millions of government employees, kicked to the curb.
If these government employees were performing services that are valuable and useful then private enterprises would sprout up to meet the demand. If not, they were not doing an economically useful job.
While I agree about taking a metaphorical axe to much of the government, I'm also open to an orderly transition of needed services -- services there is a free market demand for -- to the private sector. The strategy should be to privatize, privatize, and then privatize some more after that.