Economic Freedom without Political Freedom: A Recipe for Success
I was struck by just how comfortable erstwhile advocate of human freedom Daniel Henninger sounded in his video editorial accompanying the article in March 3rd's Wall Street Journal entitled The Motorbike Economy. While briefly remarking on the Vietnamese government's anti-dissident apparatus, he came off as entirely too pleased with the results of that country's economic liberalization which has been a boon to the people and the communists alike.
Milton Friedman frequently argued that economic freedom is a necessary condition for political freedom, but not a sufficient one. The Chinese and the Vietnamese have of late been clandestinely adopting the former while rebuffing the latter, and it seems they can continue to do so indefinitely. The Vietnamese and Chinese (and even Cubans) that come to America lately are not particularly thankful to be here. Many tend to make excuses for or encourage their government's oppressive behavior, while condemning the American excesses they so often heard about in their state-controlled media. When confronted with facts and statistics about their own country's miserable condition, they inevitably point out how far it's come in the past decade or two. It's clear to me that the communists that survived the Cold War have figured out that economic liberalization combined with brutal political repression is indeed a recipe for success. Were I a Castro or a Kim, it is how I would run my country.
I put this question to ricochet as I put it to myself: Should we be helping these people attain true political freedom (which fewer and fewer of them seem to crave) at great up-front cost to ourselves, or should we continue to tolerate their repression in exchange for the economic freedom that seems to satisfy them and us alike? In other words, is it worth it to have a Korean War in order to create a South Korea or is a China good enough?
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Jul '10
Re: Economic Freedom without Political Freedom: A Recipe for Success
That is a fantastic question for our time. When the West won the Cold War we assumed that the free and representative governments would inevitably follow free market markets. In the US we have operated on that assumption to one degree or another. It is thought that once a certain amount of economic prosperity is reached a country's middle class reaches a critical mass leading it to call for democratic reforms.
We can seriously question whether that assumption is correct and this leads to some interesting questions.
Are we really promoting free and representative government when we are promoting the free market?
Can a one party state like China maintain a tethered capitalism of one party rule and free markets?
Is it in the US’s interest to act as the safeguard of the American Global system if it upholds free markets and is indifferent to democracy?
Edited on Mar 5, 2011 at 2:28pmJun '10
Re: Economic Freedom without Political Freedom: A Recipe for Success
I think you have to consider where Vietnam started from and where it is now. 35 years ago there was no political freedom and much tyranny. Now the goverment generally leaves people alone as long as they do not rock the boat to much. We in America like very much to rock the boat but Vietnamese people are different in outlook and culture. Even I, as an enlisted GI 42 years ago in Vietnam, saw that. But as time goes on there will be evolution just as has happened in S. Korea. The sad part is that if we had given the S. Vietnamese the help we promised, they might have retained independence and been close to where S. Korea is today.
Oct '10
Re: Economic Freedom without Political Freedom: A Recipe for Success
"I put this question to ricochet as I put it to myself: Should we be helping these people attain true political freedom (which fewer and fewer of them seem to crave) at great up-front cost to ourselves, or should we continue to tolerate their repression in exchange for the economic freedom that seems to satisfy them and us alike? In other words, is it worth it to have a Korean War in order to create a South Korea or is a China good enough?"
Awesome question: I hope it gets enough attention to make it to the main feed (Editors please note).
Your insight that not all cultures crave democracy (which I assume, although I may not be correct, you equate with "political freedom"), is an important one. We seen to be very "democentric" in the US.
Vietnam and China, I think, are good examples of nations whose people have benefited from trade in terms of their standard of living. And it seems that with increased acces to goods comes a desire for "the good life" which correlates well with freedom.
I think it safe to say that ecomomic development is proto-democratic.
May '10
Re: Economic Freedom without Political Freedom: A Recipe for Success
What's the distinction between economic and political freedom?
Nov '10
Re: Economic Freedom without Political Freedom: A Recipe for Success
Good Berean:
Your insight that not all cultures crave democracy (which I assume, although I may not be correct, you equate with "political freedom"), is an important one. We seen to be very "democentric" in the US.
I actually do not believe this at all. You can have people that do not crave democracy, but not a culture. What has happened in Vietnam and Cuba is that all those who craved democracy were either killed in prison or fled on boats, and those who remained have had it beaten out of them for the most part.
Economic freedom is the freedom to buy, sell, and trade as one sees fit. Political freedom is the right to elect your government, speak out against them, and leave the country if you wish. Chile in the '70s and China today, as examples, had/have economic freedom (for the most part) without political freedom.
Jul '10
Re: Economic Freedom without Political Freedom: A Recipe for Success
Well, it's definitely a recipe for relative success. But isn't that kind of like saying riding a bike is faster than walking? Is it better than Chavez's model? Sure, but that doesn't make it a good model.
Plenty of developing countries are seeing similar real GDP growth, Eritrea's at the top of the list this year since it opened it's first mine. In terms of per capita GDP, China probably won't catch Jamaica or the Dominican Republic for a few years.
Maybe so, but the fact that they are here speaks volumes. They value political freedom, whether they admit it or not.
May '10
Re: Economic Freedom without Political Freedom: A Recipe for Success
Seems like economic freedom is much broader than political freedom.
Dec '10
Re: Economic Freedom without Political Freedom: A Recipe for Success
I'd count economic freedom as a subset of political freedom. Economic freedom is necessary but not sufficient to give political freedom.
Vowels are a subset of letters. Vowels are necessary but not sufficient to make up an alphabet.
In any case, the Vietnamese, as well as the Chinese, have opened doors they can not close. The former economic planners have discovered that economies run themselves much better than planners can.
Jul '10
Re: Economic Freedom without Political Freedom: A Recipe for Success
Does political freedom make sense without property rights?
Does economic freedom make sense if the governed have no say in government?
It seems to me that a socialist state can grant political license. Likewise a one-party state can grant economic license. But I'm not sure that either circumstance entails much freedom.
May '10
Re: Economic Freedom without Political Freedom: A Recipe for Success
Palaeologus: Does political freedom make sense without property rights?
Does economic freedom make sense if the governed have no say in government?
It seems to me that a socialist state can grant political license. Likewise a one-party state can grant economic license. But I'm not sure that either circumstance entails much freedom.
"Conditional freedom".
Jul '10
Re: Economic Freedom without Political Freedom: A Recipe for Success
Dec '10
Re: Economic Freedom without Political Freedom: A Recipe for Success
Palaeologus: Does political freedom make sense without property rights?
Does economic freedom make sense if the governed have no say in government?
It seems to me that a socialist state can grant political license. Likewise a one-party state can grant economic license. But I'm not sure that either circumstance entails much freedom. · Mar 5 at 7:29pm
It's the other way around. Countriescan create what they call economic freedom -- "to get rich is glorious" -- and think their people will be ecstatic at the rise in their physical standard of living.
However, at some point -- and this is happening in many places in China -- the "economically free" people will realize how much their "freedom" relies on the whims of the apparatchiks and nomenklatura. What the people have, they have only by the sufferance of the Party bureaucrats.
It's at that point that the people realize that without political freedom, they have no freedom at all, but only a gilded cage. If they live in a right-wing dictatorship, they may luck out: the dictator may believe in democracy as an abstract goal. In a left-wing dictatorship, the Party will never yield because it fancies itself democratic.
Dec '10
Re: Economic Freedom without Political Freedom: A Recipe for Success
From China: The impetus for a "jasmine revolution" in China is "very strong", according to the country's leading artist Ai Wei Wei.
"In the past two weeks, over 100 people have been arrested. Some are long-time writers, scholars, lawyers; some are just one-time students saying 'let's meet on a certain corner, a certain street.' It's very strong," Mr Ai said in an interview with Time Out Hong Kong to be published next week...
China's leaders have appeared rattled by calls for "jasmine" protests from overseas dissidents, veering between acknowledging the potential for social unrest caused by China's uneven development and dismissing the notion of a jasmine protest as a fantasy of the western media.
On Saturday at the opening of the annual sitting of China's rubber-stamp parliament, Wen Jiabao, the prime minister, acknowledged the "great resentment" felt by some people over corruption, land grabs and rising prices.
However on Monday the country's foreign minister Yang Jiechi, dismissed any talk of "jasmine" protests and denied Chinese police had beaten foreign journalists despite well-documented assaults and complaints from the US and EU ambassadors.
Aug '10
Re: Economic Freedom without Political Freedom: A Recipe for Success
Excellent question. Two quick reactions:
1. Won't economic "freedom" in the absence of political freedom always be contingent? The rulers can always take their citizens' property away. Russia might be an example.
2. I'm not sure I was ever fully persuaded, but one of the reasons given for our seeking to spread democracy was the line that democracies, unlike totalitarian states, don't start wars on their peaceful neighbors. If this is the case, aren't we taking a substantial risk in accepting or promoting the development of totalitarian states whose "free" markets produce wealth sufficient to fund powerful armed forces?
Debatable points perhaps, but I'd want to work through them carefully.
Great site. Keep up the good work.
May '10
Re: Economic Freedom without Political Freedom: A Recipe for Success
The fact that current Vietnamese folks don't bad mouth their country is not very surprising. The country has made significant progress (these aren't boat people). Their frame of reference is very different to that of outsiders. Most people on the planet keep the negatives they feel about their country confined to conversations with other citizens from the same place. There are strong cultural taboos in many parts of Asia against cavalier criticism.
Helping to advance economic freedom essentially means free trade. Milton Friedman would be the first to say that free trade benefits both parties. If you believe this (and I do), there is absolutely no reason not to assist in their economic freedom, letting them evolve to the political freedom level of their choice.
Oct '10
Re: Economic Freedom without Political Freedom: A Recipe for Success
Steve MacDonald:
Helping to advance economic freedom essentially means free trade. Milton Friedman would be the first to say that free trade benefits both parties. If you believe this (and I do), there is absolutely no reason not to assist in their economic freedom, letting them evolve to the political freedom level of their choice. · Mar 7 at 9:47pm
It's a little more complex then that. Financial systems are much less sophisticated then they were in the 1800s, and free trade has suffered because of it. The large trade imbalances in the world is evidence of this.
For within-country trade, most societies use fiscal transfers to even out imbalances. It's crude, but it works. Eventually we will have to go back to some of the financial risk-adjustment mechanisms we had before (such as rural banks that issue currency, mildly flexible exchange rates between regions, etc).
Oct '10
Re: Economic Freedom without Political Freedom: A Recipe for Success
Jerry Broaddus: I'd count economic freedom as a subset of political freedom. Economic freedom is necessary but not sufficient to give political freedom.
Vowels are a subset of letters. Vowels are necessary but not sufficient to make up an alphabet.
In any case, the Vietnamese, as well as the Chinese, have opened doors they can not close. The former economic planners have discovered that economies run themselves much better than planners can. · Mar 5 at 7:20pm
Dnt blv vwls r ncssry.
Nov '10
Re: Economic Freedom without Political Freedom: A Recipe for Success
James F Strother:
1. Won't economic "freedom" in the absence of political freedom always be contingent?
A story from Vietnam: Once there was a nun who ran an orphanage. Because in a Confucian society there is no role for orphans, she gave jobs in the orphanage to the grown-up ("aged out") orphans.
Over time, people from the US started to come to Vietnam and adopt orphans. They gave fees and donations to the nun to help cover the costs of the orphanage. She used the money to set up group homes for the adult former orphans.
Everything was wonderful, until someone in the government noticed that the adoption "business" was obviously lucrative. The government took over the orphanage, and the nun was lucky to escape going to jail--not that she was accused of any crime, but it would have helped cover up the takeover of the orphanage.
This all happened close to ten years ago, and perhaps things are better now, but without property rights, "economic freedom" is empty. Of course eventually the US government closed adoption from Vietnam. I wonder how well the Vietnamese government is doing with managing the orphanage now.
Dec '10
Re: Economic Freedom without Political Freedom: A Recipe for Success
Matthew Osborn
Dnt blv vwls r ncssry. · Mar 7 at 11:16pm
Many ancient alphabets, Hebrew for example, did not have vowels. The first alphabet to have vowels was Greek.
Edited on Mar 8, 2011 at 4:09amOct '10
Re: Economic Freedom without Political Freedom: A Recipe for Success
From an earlier post:
I believe it works this way:
God operates a perfect democracy. He reads the hearts of the people of a nation, and then He gives them the government they have voted for. As an individual, I get to ride in the same vehicle, America, as every one else, and, in fact, have at times, whether I knew it or not, cast my own vote foolishly against God and the American culture.
Were God and our culture one? NO! But America came closer to being a culture that reflects the God of Jews and Christians than has ever been. For that, we have received God's Grace and Mercy, and He poured out His Blessings upon us.
We changed our minds about God, and now He has changed His mind about us. Where's the unfairness in that? God is always inviting us to Himself, and our response is now known.
The same goes for Vietnam. They will own their future government every bit as much as we own ours. It is their nation and they will build what they will. Our role is to be their example, to the degree that we still reflect God.