Drugs, Mental Illness, and the Tucson Assassin
The New York Times has a long article on Jared Loughner today, "A Jigsaw Picture of an Accused Killer." While its authors seemed eager to attach any odd behavior to "right wing extremist groups," they let this paragraph stand on its own:
The music director (Mr. Tidaback) suspected that the teenager might be using marijuana.
“Being around people who smoke pot, they tend to be a little paranoid,” Mr. Tidaback said. “I got that sense from him. That might have been part of his being withdrawn.”
Mr. Tidaback, it seems, was onto something. Several of Jared’s friends said he used marijuana, mushrooms and, especially, the hallucinogenic herb called Salvia divinorum. When smoked or chewed, the plant can cause brief but intense highs.
So Loughner was into weed and hallucinogens, we have studies that link regular drug use to schizophrenia, and everyone's speculating about whether Loughner's apparent schizophrenia may have contributed to the tragedy. I don't have a Ph.D in connecting dots or anything, but is it conceivable that Loughner's drug use set him down the path to the killings?
Yet drug use isn't part of the narrative. Could it be that this theory doesn't sit well in circles that are friendly to drug use... circles more familiar to the Left than to the Right?
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Nov '10
Re: Drugs, Mental Illness, and the Tucson Assassin
Ottoman Umpire:
Yet drug use isn't part of the narrative. Could it be that this theory doesn't sit well in circles that are friendly to drug use... circles more familiar to the Left than to the Right?
You are exactly right. To suggest that drugs (rather than right-wing extremism) motivated Jared Loughner is a "lose-lose" for the Left. They will not go down that road.
Aug '10
Re: Drugs, Mental Illness, and the Tucson Assassin
It is, as far as I know, still somewhat unclear how much folks with latent psychoses exhibit more drug-seeking behavior in the first place (drug use acting as a proxy for insanity that's already there or an attempt at self-medication) and how much drugs might cause psychosis in the sense that a person who was normal to begin with could develop psychosis simply by using a drug.
I think, though, that it's pretty well established that a bad trip, like any other traumatic experience, may precipitate a psychotic break in a person with latent schizophrenia.
I can say that knowledge of my own family's mental-health skeletons is a major reason why I've shied away from recreational drugs. That, plus the fact that I knew from an early age that I specifically was more prone to melancholy than average, so that the anodyne power of drugs might tempt me more than a happier soul would be tempted.
I use caffeine pretty freely (though it's to my mind a "work drug", not a "fun drug"). But I'm even leery of alcohol consumption, drinking neither much nor often -- though I like it.
Edited on Jan 15, 2011 at 10:18pmMay '10
Re: Drugs, Mental Illness, and the Tucson Assassin
Yes, the drugs-schizophrenia link could be what statisticians describe as a spurious relationship. But it doesn't preclude causality. my bet is the latter. Let's put it this way: if a correlation had been found between gun ownership (or listening to talk radio) and mental illness, the Left would be ALL over it.
Jun '10
Re: Drugs, Mental Illness, and the Tucson Assassin
I seriously doubt it. It seems a bit of a stretch to call the left's reaction to the shooting anything but knee-jerk.
May '10
Re: Drugs, Mental Illness, and the Tucson Assassin
Of course it was knee-jerk. I don't doubt for a second that the Left really believes that Rush Limbaugh/Sarah Palin/George W. Bush/Dick Cheney/Glenn Beck & company are responsible for all that's bad in America, and they are keenly intent on enlightening the American people of this.
I guess I'm hoping you'll share with me some amusement at their cognitive dissonance. An awful act occurs, they come up with a theory that suits their worldview, that theory is shredded, an alternative theory emerges that implicates a practice they hold dear. Head spins around, smoke billows from ears, they intone Does... Not... Compute... over and over. Great theatre.
Sep '10
Re: Drugs, Mental Illness, and the Tucson Assassin
Its out of political fashion. Once an argument has played out, it's on to the next thing. The drug argument happened in the seventies and eighties and the drug war has clearly been lost. Already there is a full scale assault on drug use...not only have millions been jailed or fined, you cant get a job in almost any field without passing the pee test, so the argument is moot; this society is already maxed out fighting illegal drugs.
This last event would have spurred a renewed debate over guns as little as ten years ago but that approach was largely avoided. Dems know that is a losing political issue.
Violent movies and video games would have been blamed had Tipper Gore been fashionable and her arguments been not roundly rejected by the left backed by Hollywood interests.
Lefties don't have solid principles, only objectives. They like to create an atmosphere and then exploit it.
Dec '10
Re: Drugs, Mental Illness, and the Tucson Assassin
“…circles that are friendly to drug use... circles more familiar to the Left than to the Right?”
I am among the libertarians (note the lower case L) who know the drug war, especially against marijuana, is useless and dangerous. It kills more people than any nut case ever thought of.
I think many Ricochet members agree.
Edited on Jan 16, 2011 at 8:04amMay '10
Re: Drugs, Mental Illness, and the Tucson Assassin
I'd draw a distinction between approval of drug use and its legality. While conservatives may disagree about the latter (I'm insufficiently libertarian to support its legalization, although perhaps the "war" part should be attenuated), I see the Left as friendlier to its use than the Right.
And if drug use can lead to the kind of mental condition apparent in Loughner, then it's hardly the victimless crime some make it out to be.
Aug '10
Re: Drugs, Mental Illness, and the Tucson Assassin
Ottoman Umpire
I'd draw a distinction between approval of drug use and its legality.
As would I.
Dec '10
Re: Drugs, Mental Illness, and the Tucson Assassin
Ottoman Umpire
And if drug use can lead to the kind of mental condition apparent in Loughner, then it's hardly the victimless crime some make it out to be. · Jan 16 at 8:29am
That is a very big IF. Prohibition was ended because children were being killed in the streets. We still are dealing with the organized crime it spawned. And let's not forget the Kennedy's. Old Joe made his money rum running. Without it we may have been spared the deleterious effects of his awful progeny.
I seriously doubt that drugs were responsible for Tucson’s tragedy, but even if it were, it does not compare to the many tragedies happening every day due to the drug war.
Jun '10
Re: Drugs, Mental Illness, and the Tucson Assassin
Ottoman Umpire
Of course it was knee-jerk. I don't doubt for a second that the Left really believes that Rush Limbaugh/Sarah Palin/George W. Bush/Dick Cheney/Glenn Beck & company are responsible for all that's bad in America, and they are keenly intent on enlightening the American people of this.
I guess I'm hoping you'll share with me some amusement at their cognitive dissonance. An awful act occurs, they come up with a theory that suits their worldview, that theory is shredded, an alternative theory emerges that implicates a practice they hold dear. Head spins around, smoke billows from ears, they intone Does... Not... Compute... over and over. Great theatre. · Jan 15 at 11:03pm
Oh, I'm totally with you, there. Rationality and consistency are not exactly hallmarks of the Left. Unfortunately, our side can't really hold the high ground on this, especially as concerns the drug war and most especially as concerns underage drinking.
Edited on Jan 16, 2011 at 12:33pmJun '10
Re: Drugs, Mental Illness, and the Tucson Assassin
This latest from Our Friend Chuckie might sway you.
Jul '10
Re: Drugs, Mental Illness, and the Tucson Assassin
Are you suggesting that drugs "cause" schizophrenia?
Or are you suggesting that drug use might cause schizophrenics to commit acts they might not commit in the absence of drugs?
I would doubt the former proposition and tend to agree with the latter.
But let's not conflate mental illness with drug and alcohol usage. The nation's drunk tanks and jails are full of perfectly sane people who committed crimes while under the influence.
In my own limited experience, the schizophrenic I lived with never took drugs or alcohol before his latent condition was triggered by battlefield trauma. Afterward, like many mentally ill people, he became a voracious consumer. Was he crazier when drugged up than he was when sober? Honestly, I couldn't tell the difference. You can't calibrate that kind of crazy.
Edited on Jan 16, 2011 at 2:56pmAug '10
Re: Drugs, Mental Illness, and the Tucson Assassin
Technically what you're describing is endogeneity, which is when two variables are mutually causal. In some circumstances this can lead to a positive feedback loop.
Aug '10
Re: Drugs, Mental Illness, and the Tucson Assassin
Ottoman Umpire
Yet drug use isn't part of the narrative. Could it be that this theory doesn't sit well in circles that are friendly to drug use... circles more familiar to the Left than to the Right? ·
Yet growing up with a house cat (also, see here, here, here, and here) isn't part of the narrative. Could it be that this theory doesn't sit well with our cat-loving coastal elites?
Edited on Jan 16, 2011 at 3:54pmDec '10
Re: Drugs, Mental Illness, and the Tucson Assassin
Kenneth: Are you suggesting that drugs "cause" schizophrenia?
Or are you suggesting that drug use might cause schizophrenics to commit acts they might not commit in the absence of drugs?
I would doubt the former proposition and tend to agree with the latter.
Edited on Jan 16 at 02:56 pm
Upon googling this, I found an article in Time (yes, yes, I know) the basic thesis of which is that marijuana doesn't cause schizophrenia, but among schizophrenics, it tends to aggrivate the symptoms and make them occur much earlier in life.
May '10
Re: Drugs, Mental Illness, and the Tucson Assassin
anon_academic
Technically what you're describing is endogeneity, which is when two variables are mutually causal. In some circumstances this can lead to a positive feedback loop. · Jan 16 at 3:41pm
Interesting distinction, and you may well be right. I'm thinking here of two variables that each have a separate root cause. For example, perhaps having a messed up home life can cause people to both take drugs and develop a mental illness. In that case, the drug use and mental illness are correlated, but one doesn't cause the other.
It sounds like you're drawing from latent variable modeling, with its emphasis on endogenous and exogenous variables. This is an area I've studied, but never had a chance to mess around with. Very cool stuff, though.
Aug '10
Re: Drugs, Mental Illness, and the Tucson Assassin
Ottoman Umpire
Interesting distinction, and you may well be right. I'm thinking here of two variables that each have a separate root cause. For example, perhaps having a messed up home life can cause people to both take drugs and develop a mental illness. In that case, the drug use and mental illness are correlated, but one doesn't cause the other.
yes, that would be plain vanilla spuriousness
Ottoman Umpire
It sounds like you're drawing from latent variable modeling, with its emphasis on endogenous and exogenous variables.
Latent variable modeling is about (observed) indicators and (unobserved) latent variables. For instance, diagnostic checklists are indicators of mental disorders, which are themselves not directly observable. I explain it to my students as analogous to Calvinist conceptions of grace -- we can't see if you're saved but being saved will change your behavior in ways that we can see so based on your behavior we can make a reasonable guess about your election.
Endogeneity may or may not involve latent variables. The kind of math it becomes important in is time-series models (think of research that uses words like "lagged," "panel," or "longitudinal").
May '10
Re: Drugs, Mental Illness, and the Tucson Assassin
Kenneth: Are you suggesting that drugs "cause" schizophrenia?
Or are you suggesting that drug use might cause schizophrenics to commit acts they might not commit in the absence of drugs?
I would doubt the former proposition and tend to agree with the latter.
I'm mostly suggesting the former. Here's another article that skips through a few studies before concluding, "Researchers now believe that using the (marijuana) while the brain is developing boosts levels of the chemical dopamine in the brain which can directly lead to schizophrenia." I've read a two of the studies alluded to, but not the others. They seem persuasive that a causal link should at least be considered.
Reefer Madness comes to mind, of course, and its over-the-top portrayal of crazed pot addicts doesn't lend much credibility to more, uh, sober attempts to make what is directionally the same point. Salvia, from what I've read, seems so much more intense than marijuana, and I'd hate to think of what effect it might have on developing brain chemistry.
May '10
Re: Drugs, Mental Illness, and the Tucson Assassin
anon_academic
Ottoman Umpire
It sounds like you're drawing from latent variable modeling, with its emphasis on endogenous and exogenous variables.
Latent variable modeling is about (observed) indicators and (unobserved) latent variables. For instance, diagnostic checklists are indicators of mental disorders, which are themselves not directly observable. I explain it to my students as analogous to Calvinist conceptions of grace -- we can't see if you're saved but being saved will change your behavior in ways that we can see so based on your behavior we can make a reasonable guess about your election.
Endogeneity may or may not involve latent variables. The kind of math it becomes important in is time-series models (think of research that uses words like "lagged," "panel," or "longitudinal"). · Jan 16 at 4:03pm
Good distinction. Thank you.