Don't be Depressed by the GZM Debate
To judge from e-mails, comments on Facebook and so forth, some of you are worried that the discussion about the GMZ is becoming too whacked-out, too obsessive, and dangerously incendiary.
No, it's quite healthy, I figure. These questions about Islam--what it is, who's a moderate, whether there are moderates--have been subterranean for too long. That's unhealthy.
The mosque is forcing a lot of people to subject their firm but privately-held views, whether well-founded or bigoted, to public scrutiny. That's not necessarily healthy, mind you--I too am balefully watching the nutcases come out of their hidey-holes--but it's generally a good thing. It was definitely going to happen sooner or later.
There's been a stifling veil of political correctness drawn over this subject for fear of exciting extremists--on both sides, mind you. But ordinary people sense that for what it is: flimflam and an insult to their intelligence. If the emotion generated by the mosque prompts this kind of debate, and if it happens, no coincidence, before an election, that's what democracy is about.
So, to Conor Friedersdorf's latest at the Dish. I agree with you, Conor, that Imam Feisal should not be judged a radical simply because he has attended conferences where radicals were present. Were you to judge me by the opinions of people with whom I'm loosely associated--my list of Facebook friends, for example--you'd conclude that I was (serially), a crypto-Islamist, a profound bigot, a conspiracy theorist, a Turkish nationalist, and a partisan of the Animal Liberation Front. I talk to a lot of people with whom I profoundly disagree. I figure that even if I don't change their minds today, some of it might sink in drop by drop. Political opinions tend to mature over a matter of years, not minutes. I've even been known to change my mind after exposure to an opposing point of view, albeit quite a bit later, after a face-saving interval.
The flap over Ann Coulter's appearance at Homocon suggests the same question. I agree with her that giving a speech at Homocon does not amount to furnishing your apartment with lucite chairs and adding a splash of Mediterranean Walnut to the transitional spaces in your walls. So you're right about that, Conor. We can agree about that.
So, Conor, would you agree with me about this? It's time to hear from Imam Feisal himself. I'm not impressed that he's left the entire nation to read the tea-leaves and the entrails. I'm sick of hearing from Park 51's adolescent flack on Twitter. If Feisal wants to build bridges, he'd best come back from Malaysia and do some building.
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Comments:
Jul '10
Re: Don't be Depressed by the GZM Debate
Better than anything written over at "the Dish" is this.
Aug '10
Re: Don't be Depressed by the GZM Debate
You're exactly right, Claire. This is a tipping-point and a moral touchstone for us all. We're in a war that has as much to do with spiritual forces as it does material ones. Words matter. They express critically important ideas and principals. Our Revolution was fought and won with words as much as bullets and gunpowder.
We must never let the enemy trivialize these principals; and they are striving mightily to trivialize them. In the end it's not about Constitutional rights, but about responsibility for unintended outcomes. We can't yell "fire!" in a crowded theater, or "there's a bomb on this plane!"
If the GZM advocates have their way, the Hamas-que will be the first - if not only - thing built at ground zero. The Greek Orthodox Church will be kept waiting forever, unable to rebuild their basilica.
Islamonazis will be celebrating until the end of time that they conquered the Great Satan. This is how they think, not with reason (generally) but with symbols that stimulate feelings of pride or shame.
We are all players in a masque, from the French, masquerade. Funny how that sounds like mosque, isn't it?
Re: Don't be Depressed by the GZM Debate
Talk about "whacked-out." According the article below, some Muslims think the GZM is actually a "Zionist conspiracy" to make Islam look bad. Wow.
http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/top-muslims-condemn-ground-zero-mosque-as-a-%E2%80%98zionist-conspiracy%E2%80%99/
Jun '10
Re: Don't be Depressed by the GZM Debate
Claire: "If Feisal wants to build bridges, he'd best come back from Malaysia and do some building."
If Feisal truly wants to build bridges, he can defer to the 70% of Americans who do not wish to see his mosque near ground zero. He can offer to put it somewhere else whereupon we can change the debate to something more substantial, like what are his sources of funding? The pith of the problem remains the exportation of Wahhabism from Saudi Arabia.
It seems to me that in one respect Feisal has done us a favor (H/T Barack Obama) by nationalizing the debate just two months before an election. Clearly the imam didn't give due consideration to the law of unintended consequences. Had the issue remained local, New Yorkers would likely have given him what he wants. Now that ordinary Americans across the country are weighing in, he's losing the initiative. We have far to go yet in this debate before issues are settled.
Re: Don't be Depressed by the GZM Debate
Ursula Hennessey: Talk about "whacked-out." According the article below, some Muslims think the GZM is actually a "Zionist conspiracy" to make Islam look bad. Wow.
http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/top-muslims-condemn-ground-zero-mosque-as-a-%E2%80%98zionist-conspiracy%E2%80%99/ · Aug 19 at 6:16am
Oh, Ursula--you're surprised! I could have looked really prescient by predicting this, I guess. You see, the Zionist Conspiracy explains everything. Even the disappearance of Jimmy Hoffa.
Re: Don't be Depressed by the GZM Debate
Claire Berlinski
Ursula Hennessey: Talk about "whacked-out." According the article below, some Muslims think the GZM is actually a "Zionist conspiracy" to make Islam look bad. Wow.
http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/top-muslims-condemn-ground-zero-mosque-as-a-%E2%80%98zionist-conspiracy%E2%80%99/ · Aug 19 at 6:16am
Oh, Ursula--you're surprised! I could have looked really prescient by predicting this, I guess. You see, the Zionist Conspiracy explains everything. Even the disappearance of Jimmy Hoffa. · Aug 19 at 6:39am
Well, I wonder if this could make for an interesting turn of events. Maybe being accused of being part of a "Zionist Conspiracy" will actually make the GZM folks back off. What a strange twist that would be.
May '10
Re: Don't be Depressed by the GZM Debate
Claire: I've even been known to change my mind after exposure to an opposing point of view, albeit quite a bit later, after a face-saving interval.
The first truly honest comment by a public intellectual! Claire would never make it in politics, even if she traveled with a tiny kitten and put it on the podium during every speech.
Re: Don't be Depressed by the GZM Debate
Oh, no, Imam Feisal's spent a lot of time in this part of the world, he won't be remotely surprised; it's par for the course. I mean, you get a traffic ticket, you blame a Zionist conspiracy. It would be weirder if no one blamed a Zionist conspiracy than if they did. (The lack of the accusation would make even me wonder if it was a Zionist conspiracy.)
Re: Don't be Depressed by the GZM Debate
Yeah, them Zionists are pretty slick. They also manipulate the global media to make themselves look as bad as possible to conceal the fact that they manipulate the global media. There's no end to their cunning.
Re: Don't be Depressed by the GZM Debate
In fact ... Hennesy ... Hennesy ... that sounds like a Jewish name to me. By the way, Ursula, do you find that sometimes the Elders are late with your paycheck?
May '10
Re: Don't be Depressed by the GZM Debate
The "moderate Muslims" debate is now the longest running debate on Ricochet, I think, spanning across many threads. It feels like too much at times, but it's a worthy discussion.
Claire Berlinski:
The flap over Ann Coulter's appearance at Homocon suggests the same question.·
I'm still trying to figure out how to pronounce GOProud. The name looks clever written down, but there's no satisfaction in saying either "G-O-proud" or "G-O-P-roud". Maybe if I keep trying to blend the two versions for the rest of the day...
Jul '10
Re: Don't be Depressed by the GZM Debate
It's not a debate, it's a dialogue:
"You just poked your finger in my eye!"
"Yes, I did. And there's not a damned thing you can do about it."
May '10
Re: Don't be Depressed by the GZM Debate
Hey, Claire, your other thread appears to be mangled, format wise. So just opining on this one.
Hugh Hewitt does have a substantial audience, but if you want southern coverage (and where are there more conservatives?), try Nealboortz.com. Morning show. He's a sort of libertarian with a hankerin for strong defense. So he adores the Baroness Thatcher. His assistants are a black dude name Royal and a southern girl named Belinda. They'll be happy to set you up.
May '10
Re: Don't be Depressed by the GZM Debate
~Paules: [...]If Feisal truly wants to build bridges, he can defer to the 70% of Americans who do not wish to see his mosque near ground zero. He can offer to put it somewhere else whereupon we can change the debate to something more substantial, like what are his sources of funding? [...]
It'll never happen. This sucker's goin' up at Ground Zero or it won't get funded, let alone built. The whole project is a power-play (and Imam Feisal's stubbornness the last month confirms as much), so moving it would defeat the whole purpose.
And America's flipping the bird to political correctness--if it lasts--is the greatest development of the 21st century (and without which we're frankly doomed in the "Clash of Civilizations"). Speak on, USA.