Don't Just Sit There ... Talk Nonsense!
Last month, Mollie posted about the perils that a world organized by extraverts presents for their introvert brethren. The outporing of sympathetic comments revealed that we are well beyond quorum levels for introverts here at Ricochet, which leads to my curiosity as to how they would respond to this piece in the Atlantic by Jessica Lahey, a New Hampshire teacher who is adamant about the fact that it's the extroverts' world and introverts just live in it. To wit:
I am aware that as an extrovert, I naturally teach to and understand the needs of extroverts. Consequently, I have worked very hard to research and implement teaching strategies that work for introverted students. I have a personal interest in the subject as well, as I am married to one introvert and mother to another.
Thankfully, there's more information on introverts out there than ever before. I tapped into my amazing personal learning network of educators and gathered a towering pile of books on my nightstand, topped by Susan Cain's book Quiet: The Power of Introverts in a World that Can't Stop Talking. In her book, Cain champions the often-overlooked talents and gifts of introverts, and offers parents and educators strategies for communication and evaluation. This year, I drew on this advice and made a number of changes to my classroom in order to improve learning opportunities for my introverted students.
In the end, I have decided to retain my class participation requirement. As a teacher, it is my job to teach grammar, vocabulary, and literature, but I must also teach my students how to succeed in the world we live in -- a world where most people won't stop talking. If anything, I feel even more strongly that my introverted students must learn how to self-advocate by communicating with parents, educators, and the world at large.
Dr. Kendall Hoyt -- introvert, assistant professor of medicine at Dartmouth Medical School,-- agrees. "You don't get a pass for your personality type. I understand that social anxiety is a real thing - I am an introvert, and my mother used to actually faint if she had to do public speaking - but part of my job as a teacher is to teach people how to articulate and be heard."
Personally, I always hated participation requirements as a student, as they tended to privilege the guy who knew that he could secure a chunk of his grade by raising his hand and badly rehashing what the teacher had just said. It bothered me less that it was punitive towards introverts than that it was an academic subsidy for people who were willing to talk, regardless of whether they had anything worthwhile to say. I think this is probably about the time that my affection for Calvin Coolidge started.
What say you? Is this a reasonable concession to the world introverts will have to live in? Or further proof that education tends to treat introverts as aliens in need of assimilation?
P.S. -- I think most introverts would recognize "self-advocate" as a phrase invented by extroverts so they can hold seminars about it.
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Comments:
Jul '12
Re: Don't Just Sit There ... Talk Nonsense!
I dislike public speaking, and hated it in school, and I loathe the way this teacher treats introverts like some kind of special-needs knotheads. However, people who can't speak to others will find it harder to get by in this world, and always have.
I don't think it's particularly unfair to them any more than reading assignments are to kids who can't sit still. Part of growing up is learning to cope with things you don't want to do.
May '11
Re: Don't Just Sit There ... Talk Nonsense!
I worked in a technical field, there were two types of people, those who actually do the work and those that call meetings to discuss the work. The meeting callers felt that the meeting itself was the work, the doers felt that the meeting was an interruption in the work. Never the twain shall, ......well, meet.
Meanwhile, let's go around the room and everyone tell us a little about yourself. GRRRRR
Aug '12
Re: Don't Just Sit There ... Talk Nonsense!
I'm one of the introverts, but I have participation as part of my classes. My reasons are 3: 1.) To make sure they are paying attention, 2.) Immediate feedback to me on whether students are comprehending, 3.) to solidify the concepts in their minds by making the students recall the information on demand and do somethingwith it.
Sure, I could give lots of papers -but then I'd have to grade them and the paperwork would bury me. Classroom discussion is far more useful than having to guess what students are struggling with.
Actually -I'd rather do the "sage on the stage" approach, I always feel awkward guiding a discussion or teaching socratically. But it doesn't seem to work with the current generation of students. I leave the why's as an exercise to the reader.
May '10
Re: Don't Just Sit There ... Talk Nonsense!
Being comfortable with Public Speaking and being an Extrovert are not the same thing.
It really has to do with where you get your energy. Introverts can act extroverted and vice versa. It is what you are most comfortable doing.
Look at it this way, for all the discomfort the introvert has in speaking more, the extrovert has in keeping quiet. I don't know about y'all, but there are lots of times I wish I was better at shutting up.
Weaknesses and Strengths are often two sides of a coin.
Oct '12
Re: Don't Just Sit There ... Talk Nonsense!
"To be articulate and be heard." From what I've seen with my three high schoolers, "participation" grades have a lot to do with being heard and not much to do with being articulate. If you constantly stick your hand up and blather on unintelligently about the topic, revealing only your thoughtlessness and lack of preparation, you don't get marked down. If you pause to think about your response before sticking your hand up, you will never get called on and will lose participation points. I pointed out this dynamic to my kids teachers many times ("participation" was always an "issue" with my kids) to no avail. Eventually we just decided to live with the bad participation grades, viewing it as a tax on those who think before they speak.
Apr '11
Re: Don't Just Sit There ... Talk Nonsense!
Troy Senik, Ed.:
I think this is probably about the time that my affection for Calvin Coolidge started.
I love this.
As an introvert, I disliked the requirement to participate in class though not as much as being forced into group project after group project. The world is clearly geared towards the extrovert since they're the ones who like to band together while introverts scatter at the first opportunity. No one said life was fair. Still, one of the advantages to being an introvert is that we tend to not care a whole lot what others think of us. I've embraced my weirdness, so I let the talkers of the world do their thing and I ignore them for the most part.
May '10
Re: Don't Just Sit There ... Talk Nonsense!
She still doesn't get it.
If she wants to teach her introverted students to "self-advocate by communicating with parents, educators, and the world at large," forcing them to speak up in front of a class full of fellow students who don't really care what they have to say is never going to work. That's exactly the scenario the introvert either shies from or rolls his eyes at.
What she doesn't understand is that introverts are fully capable of advocating for themselves in front of others, given the right context. If she put them in more small-group discussion situations, she would probably see them open up immediately.
And let's face it, that is a much more common situation in the world at large than the narrow skill she thinks she's trying to teach. But as an extrovert, that fact never occurs to her.
Nov '11
Re: Don't Just Sit There ... Talk Nonsense!
That's so elementary. You wait for the hands to go up, not just take the first one every time. You make sure to call on different students to give everyone a chance. You ask factual and analytical questions to check for different levels of understanding. And so on.
But actually, I'm not sure your kids' teachers weren't doing a better job approximating the real world. Unintelligent blather sometimes works embarrassingly well, with a generous sprinkling of the right jargon.
Oct '12
Re: Don't Just Sit There ... Talk Nonsense!
Joe F,
You are right on. I think the problem is a misunderstanding about "communication." Real communication only happens if something valuable is communicated. The student who opens his mouth every day in class and nothing but drivel comes out is not really communicating; they are in fact obstructing true communication by filling the space with noise. Many so-called introverts are really people who understand that it is better to leave the space clear than fill it up with sound merely for the sake of filling it up.
I'd much rather my kid say one thing all year, but it be profound, than that he gobble on everyday in class saying nothing.
Jul '10
Re: Don't Just Sit There ... Talk Nonsense!
Two anecdotes:
In college, I had a professor who had "The Wheel of Misfortune" which simply had everyone's name on it. If it landed on you, you had to answer the question. Since the class had no participation component in the grade, about half of us simply started skipping class most of the time. The professor didn't care as long as we kept up with assignments and showed up for tests. It was more an experiment for him (it was an Econ course) in personal choice of the students, and he was content to let students do what maximized their own time while still learning the material.
I worked at one point in data entry on a team of eight, and we were always behind in our work. One day, six of the team were out for a training seminar leaving me and my boss (both introverts). We got more done in one day just working alone than the team of eight normally did in an entire week. Why? Because we weren't chatting every 15 minutes about lunch or TV or what have you.
Moral: Let introverts work unimpeded, and they will thrive and often excel.
Sep '11
Re: Don't Just Sit There ... Talk Nonsense!
Bulls Eye.
Dec '12
Re: Don't Just Sit There ... Talk Nonsense!
Bryan G. Stephens: for all the discomfort the introvert has in speaking more, the extrovert has in keeping quiet. I don't know about y'all, but there are lots of times I wish I was better at shutting up.
Weaknesses and Strengths are often two sides of a coin.
Hear, hear! My husband and I had to agree on a code word so he could let me know I was going on too long without embarrassing me. We chose "mugent" which means "lowing or bellowing like a cow" but is arcane enough that most people don't know what it means.
Aug '10
Re: Don't Just Sit There ... Talk Nonsense!
Troy Senik, Ed.:
Personally, I always hated participation requirements as a student, as they tended to privilege the guy who knew that he could secure a chunk of his grade by raising his hand and badly rehashing what the teacher had just said.
So, in other words, it is training for the real world!
Jun '10
Re: Don't Just Sit There ... Talk Nonsense!
Back in my law school days, we placed our fellow students in two classes: the talkers and the non-talkers.
Now everyone had to talk now and then because of the penchant of law professors to call on people: the categorization related to uncompelled talking.
I was a non-talker (though I think I acquitted myself reasonably well when I had to respond to a professor). But during the first year, I thought I was not nearly as smart as the talkers (my BS detector was not fully developed).
When the first year grades came out, the highest-performing students was highly skewed to the non-talkers.
Moral: leave the non-talkers alone--they're doing just fine.
Edited on February 7, 2013 at 11:02pmSep '12
Re: Don't Just Sit There ... Talk Nonsense!
At an event at my son's college in DC I chatted with the woman seated next to me, who happened to be a visiting professor from China who was teaching at AU for the year. I asked her what was the biggest difference between Chinese and American students; she immediately responded that the students here ask so many questions and comment so much, it took some getting used to. In Chinese schools, she said, the teacher is rarely interrupted, it is considered disrespectful. Students are to sit and listen and learn, and if someone actually asks a question it implies he was not paying attention to the teacher.
And are Chinese academic test scores outperforming American scores -- anybody?
Anyway, as a born introvert I'd like to explain to that teacher that nothing loosens my social uptightness more than seeing even just one or 2 extroverts leave the room.
Feb '13
Re: Don't Just Sit There ... Talk Nonsense!
I always saw the difference between my fellow introverts and the rest of the world as largely a processing difference. While some learn by talking themselves through a problem or exercise, I process new information by mulling over what others are saying and weighing it against the commentary running through my head. Once I am satified I know my own mind well enough to express it to others I am more than happy to do so. Getting to that point takes a different, quieter, more reflective path. OR perhaps introverts are the only ones left who still practice the lost art of listening!
Oct '12
Re: Don't Just Sit There ... Talk Nonsense!
Tsunami Blue
Hear, hear! My husband and I had to agree on a code word so he could let me know I was going on too long without embarrassing me. We chose "mugent" which means "lowing or bellowing like a cow" but is arcane enough that most people don't know what it means. · 11 minutes ago
My husband and I are both extroverted,* and our adaptive rule is that we only tell every 3rd story we want to tell. I sometimes sit on my hands so I won't talk (since they are are important explanatory tool).
*and public speaking is one of my favorite things to do!
Dec '12
Re: Don't Just Sit There ... Talk Nonsense!
Bryan G. Stephens: Being comfortable with Public Speaking and being an Extrovert are not the same thing.
It really has to do with where you get your energy. Introverts can act extroverted and vice versa. It is what you are most comfortable doing.
Look at it this way, for all the discomfort the introvert has in speaking more, the extrovert has in keeping quiet. I don't know about y'all, but there are lots of times I wish I was better at shutting up.
Weaknesses and Strengths are often two sides of a coin. · 30 minutes ago
I agree, as an Introvert I have no problem with public speaking, or directed small group discussions. The worst situation for introverts is small talk.
Mar '12
Re: Don't Just Sit There ... Talk Nonsense!
Z in MT
Bryan G. Stephens: Being comfortable with Public Speaking and being an Extrovert are not the same thing.
It really has to do with where you get your energy. Introverts can act extroverted and vice versa. It is what you are most comfortable doing.
Look at it this way, for all the discomfort the introvert has in speaking more, the extrovert has in keeping quiet. I don't know about y'all, but there are lots of times I wish I was better at shutting up.
Weaknesses and Strengths are often two sides of a coin. · 30 minutes ago
I agree, as an Introvert I have no problem with public speaking, or directed small group discussions. The worst situation for introverts is small talk. · 2 minutes ago
Moi aussi! I have no problem talking, but it has to be about something I am interested in or because I have a point to make. I don't like to talk just for the sake of talking.
Apr '11
Re: Don't Just Sit There ... Talk Nonsense!
I'm in agreement with those that find the teacher has learned little. Actually, I find this an error of many extroverts (sorry, Extroverted Ricochet members, I'm merely generalizing, and it's not personal): They tend to assume that Intraverts are either Extraverts just waiting to flower or just need to learn how to behave Extraverted. It oversimplifies things, and it makes the assumption that the former is deficient compared to the latter, and makes the former less willing.
For me, my second biggest hang-up was group projects. That was almost full-on an extraverted task and I never liked sharing a project like that. My first biggest hang-up was when my P.E class held "dance" which required those of us with the most social anxiety in middle school to participate and a wholly social activity in a setting where a wrong turn was devastating. I survived, but only just ...