Divided by a common language (Pt 207)
Here's what Dr Lorentz said about the latest Radio Free Delingpole podcast with Toby Young.
James, you and Toby spent a fair while bemoaning the asymmetry of the special relationship, going so far as to suggest that people in the US are unaware of this relationship. Humorous as I found your banter, I take exception.
Over the years, I’ve experienced the special relationship first hand. In official dealings between government officials (at low levels), there’s definitely a connection with the UK that exists with no other nation. Whether it’s the MoD, MI5, or MI6, there's a remarkable amount of cooperation and trust. I’ve always felt most welcome in your country in a way that I've not experienced elsewhere. Undoubtedly the common language and culture are a big part of this. Whatever the cause, the feeling is mutual.
Obviously this is nice to hear. But I don't think Toby and I ever doubted it. We love America and in our hearts we know that America loves us and our country too. So that exception you took, my dear Dr Lorentz, was wasted exception. And it's not that I'm berating you here: you're American. What's happening in this instance, I believe, is a classic case of Things About The British That Americans Don't Quite Get.
The Thing here is: English self-deprecation. It's what we do, all the time. If we've got something to shout about, we don't shout about it. Maybe it's a legacy of having spent two centuries ruling one third of the world: when the atlas is colored pink you really don't need to bang on about how wonderful you are. Or maybe it's not that, maybe our rain-sodden island status has turned us over the centuries into a bunch of self-hating, miserable sods who can't see the good in anything. I don't know the cause. All I do know is that putting ourselves down comes to us as naturally as breathing. Or loathing the French. Or missing vital penalties in World Cup football matches. Or....well, you get the idea.
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Jun '11
Re: Divided by a common language (Pt 207)
I've been an Anglophile ALL my life starting in early WWII. when I could see that the only thing standing between us and the Nazis.. were the Brits.
Sp you could imagine my surprise when,.. thrown in with a whole gaggle of Brits in my overseas assignment in the Iranian desert.. that most of then were VERY bigoted.. not against Yanks of course.. but just about anyone with "a brown skin"
Oct '10
Re: Divided by a common language (Pt 207)
Severely Ltd.
If a good many people in both countries, including many in positions of power, feel a deep bond between them due to sharing a language, a long tangled history, values, etc., I would say that that qualifies as 'special'.
Let’s accept that shared language, tangled history and common values do create feelings of bond among key decision makers. This translates as what I termed a unique opportunity resting on shared interests, an opportunity that we can exploit—as we exploit other advantages we have. It works to the mutual advantage of both the US and UK, which is why it’s so durable and long-standing. But let’s not forget that “The Star-Spangled Banner” emerged from a poem written when British “bombs bursting in air” inspired Francis Scott Key as he surveyed the battle for Baltimore during the War of 1812. The British burned down Washington, DC too. And I dare say the shared language, history and values were more prevalent a generation or so after the Revolution then they are now. History is replete with special relationships that once were not so special, and that become again not so special as circumstances change.
Oct '10
Re: Divided by a common language (Pt 207)
I think the relationship withstands, and indeed transcends, changes in circumstances. It is more like the ups and downs of family members than acquaintances or even friends. This is why the reaction to Obama removing Churchill's bust from the White House elicited such a strong reaction.
Oct '10
Re: Divided by a common language (Pt 207)
Severely Ltd.
I think the relationship withstands, and indeed transcends, changes in circumstances. It is more like the ups and downs of family members than acquaintances or even friends.
To incorporate the War of 1812 into a family metaphor, one member would have to burn down another’s home (with occupants inside) during one of those down swings in familial relations.
We shouldn’t delude ourselves by romanticizing what today (perhaps) can rightly be termed a special relationship with Her Majesty’s government. We have a profound level of cooperation with the UK because it serves the interests of both parties. When the alignment of global power changes—for instance, when the US dollar is no longer the world’s reserve currency—the Brit’s will think you are quite misguided if you cite this special relationship when attempting to convince them to do something that’s not in their own self-interest. And then they’ll tell you—politely but firmly—no. There’s a reason the British empire was referred to as perfidious Albion, and it isn’t because it romanticized bilateral relationships.
Dec '10
Re: Divided by a common language (Pt 207)
HVTs
To incorporate the War of 1812 into a family metaphor, one member would have to burn down another’s home (with occupants inside) during one of those down swings in familial relations.
Dude - I think you need to seek some help in letting go of grudges. Let's see, the war of 1812 started... what? Oh yeah! 200 years ago.
Jan '12
Re: Divided by a common language (Pt 207)
There are two levels to the 'special Relationship'.
One is the relationship between the governments where shared interests are important but recognises that each government may well have their own interests which may make them operate separately.
The other is the relationships between the citizens which having gone through a couple of centuries of being separated but being kept together by the elites. This is now transforming itself as the average citizen is now sharing social media and entertainment events across the world.
This is leading to the much trumpeted world of the Anglosphere (Can you think of a better term?) which is being advanced by certain sections of the opinion formers but is also organically growing into a huge network of world citizens.
Nov '11
Re: Divided by a common language (Pt 207)
I wish English movies would keep the classically trained English actors. My husband and I crack up because we can hardly understand what they are saying in some of the newer movies...we say that is what english sounds like if you don't speak english.
Mar '11
Re: Divided by a common language (Pt 207)
Yes, it's always amusing for me to listen to Mr Delingpole's podcasts, because, even though I am a US citizen, I still think and feel like an Englishman, and can identify with much of what is said and feel right at home.
I must say that all of Mr Delingpole's guests have a remarkably good understanding of the US - much more so than Americans have of the UK. But most people in the UK don't really understand the US, either.
So, yes, this is why I am schizophrenic.
Oct '10
Re: Divided by a common language (Pt 207)
Stephen Bishop: There are two levels to the 'special Relationship'.
One is the relationship between the governments where shared interests are important but recognises that each government may well have their own interests which may make them operate separately.
That is the level being referred to here and you capture it perfectly. When unpacked, our relationship is special except when it isn’t—my point precisely.
What distinguishes the US-UK relationship is not something of quality but rather of quantity. That is, we’ve a vast swath of bisecting interests, far more than most nation states. But in the end we pursue our own self-interests.
When the balance of power shifts, so do one’s interests. International behavior tends to follow interests, not feelings of ‘specialness.’ The UK will have a chance to demonstrate this vis-à-vis the US as our economy and world position goes the way of Greece under Obama. There will be some hurt feelings on this side of the Atlantic among those who deluded themselves into thinking the “special relationship” was different in kind from all previous human history. That’s a mistake unlikely to be made in Whitehall.
Dec '10
Re: Divided by a common language (Pt 207)
So, is the Self-Depreciation related to that other English trait: supreme understatement?
It reminds me of a story I'm too tired & lazy to link to & verify: the Brits are fighting in Europe during WWII & are supported by the Americans. One division or some such found themselves in a world of hurt and radioed (or somehow messaged) the Americans that "Things are growing a bit sticky here."
Any Brit, or Canadian, Aussie or Kiwi would have immediately realized that things were perilous and sent in reinforcements. However, the Americans, not being fully versed in English Understatement, mistook their dire need and first sent support elsewhere before relieving the Brits, nearly killing them all...