Derbyshire Speaks
Douglas ·
April 11, 2012 at 4:11am
I know we've had a lot of posts about L'Affaire Derbyshire ($1 to Diane Ellis), but up till now, John Derbyshire himself has not commented. He's been given a forum to do so in one of the most unlikely of places: Gawker. They were surprisingly fair minded, he was frank, and the exchange is informative. Apparently, Derbyshire is more concerned with getting his chemo treatments right now than he is with responding to the firestorm he started. Lots of interesting info in the exchange.
Editor's Note: We've had a lot of spirited exchanges over the Derbyshire incident on the Member Feed over the past four days. Here are a few of the many Member-initiated conversations on the topic:
- Comment (100)
- · Quote
- · UnfollowFollow (10)
Comments:
Mar '11
Re: Derbyshire Speaks
I did not mind his writing but I could not stand his podcast. Although he is a conservative he was anti-christian in his cast to often. I don't enjoy listening to podcast that directly insult me on a regular bases. It was with arrogance and a tone he knew he was right and he is smarter than all thoughs morons who believe in ID. I don't mind people disagree with me it was how he presented his position that you knew he would never listen or be willing to have a reasonable debate about the issue.
Based on the comments I agree this was not as big a deal as everyone is making it. However NR stated by itself this article is not what got Dreb fired it was just the last straw. He had a history of pushing boundary's, and they got feed up with it.
Edited on April 11, 2012 at 4:37amNov '11
Re: Derbyshire Speaks
This is how I saw it, with the exception of IQ (while interesting, I am very wary, there are very few actual uses for it, and this is not one). Also I agree with M. Stein on NR's actions.
http://ricochet.com/member-feed/The-Cynical-Mind-of-a-Jaded-Actuary-Another-post-on-Derb#comments
May '10
Re: Derbyshire Speaks
Good God, what a smarmy bunch of... ick. Gawker for delighting in their find, and "the Mole."
BKelley14: The Gawker story lead me to something which I found more interesting, and more grating:
http://gawker.com/5900710/announcing-our-newest-hire-a-current-fox-news-channel-employee
We are Doomed. · 6 hours ago
Sep '10
Re: Derbyshire Speaks
I've had a few minor email exchanges with Derb over the years. I was never much of a follower and simply noted that he'd retreated into agnosticism. I tried to engage him on some Thomistic natural philosophy once or twice to little avail and noted that his audio voice sounded similar to the late Monsignor Ronald Knox of all people. I believe that observation faintly amused him. In reading his Gawker interview, his persona bears more than a passing resemblance to an older generation of British rationalists of a period rapidly retreating into the sunset.
This whole affair reminds me of an Oscar Petersen quote from years back that he enjoyed Canada because if there's any racism it seemed to be more covert than overt. Derb's agnosticism, world weariness and battle with leukemia seem to be taking their toll and the Taki article and subsequent interview with Gawker come across as a sort of resignation of spirit as much as of letter.
I plan to keep him in my prayers; I sense that he's very much in need of them.
Feb '12
Re: Derbyshire Speaks
I took the ITA test and came up as moderately prejudiced in favour of African Americans, and slightly prejudiced in favour of Arabs.
I am very confused.
Mar '12
Re: Derbyshire Speaks
There is nothing empirical about Derb's views on race. He cites selective anecdotes to support those views as if they prove general truths about black behavior. They do not. That one observes certain behaviors more often among blacks, like attacking good samaritans on the roadside, still does not make them common among blacks. Also, his belief that IQ predicts life success is just wrong. There is flaw after flaw in his "empirical" critique of the perils of interacting with black people.
Of course we can look at crime rates, illegitimacy rates, academic achievement, life expectancy and many other statistics which point to cultural pathologies that need to be addressed within black America. Citing them as de facto racial traits confuses correlation with causation, though. Nowhere does Derb connect the dots with anything like scientific precision. Rather his "data driven" conclusions are nothing but pseudo-scientific sophistry used to cover his contemptible lack of effort to deal with the challenges of living in a melting pot of diverse cultures and backgrounds. He tries to mask his moral laziness with a flimsy veneer of "evidence" from the social sciences, which we all know aren't actually science at all.
Edited on April 11, 2012 at 5:59amFeb '12
Re: Derbyshire Speaks
But why does it matter what could happen in a different world where black American culture isn't pathological? Derb, his children, you and I, we all live in this world, and the statistics are what they are.
May '10
Re: Derbyshire Speaks
Derbyshire's biggest problem is that he hasn't spent much time around black people. If he lived in my community for a couple of years, I bet he'd change his mind. Not many African Americans in Huntington, NY, though.
Feb '12
Re: Derbyshire Speaks
I'm not sure that living in close proximity leads to happiness and warm feelings. I think there's actually evidence to the contrary. Certainly the Hasidic Jews and black people in Crown Heights aren't feeling the love.
Re: Derbyshire Speaks
Here's Derb on the topic of Hermain Cain:
Derb is certaintly a racist- and it's bad to be a racist- but keep in mind Derb is a sentient being and can make decisions on an individual basis. However, as he alluded to, it seems black people do start off 5 yards behind the line of scrimmage every time he meets a non-mathematician one.
Oct '10
Re: Derbyshire Speaks
I think Derbyshire is confusing an elite problem with a racial one. The problem isn't that blacks, as a race, are a threat to whites. The problem is black cultural elites in the United States have moved their culture in that direction.
I once had a fascinating conversation with a gay African male about American blacks. It made me realize that a lot of negative (but true) stereotypes about American blacks (such as hypersexuality) may be cultural, not racial.
My mother recently went into public education. From what she tells me, in much of black culture education is considered "acting white." If education and intelligence are punished by black culture, is it any surprise IQ tests are lower?
Re: Derbyshire Speaks
Joseph Eagar:
My mother recently went into public education. From what she tells me, in much of black culture education is considered "acting white." If education and intelligence are punished by black culture, is it any surprise IQ tests are lower? · 2 minutes ago
Reminds me of this book.
Which would certainly go along with your "culture" argument.
May '10
Re: Derbyshire Speaks
Leslie Katz
I'm not sure that living in close proximity leads to happiness and warm feelings. I think there's actually evidence to the contrary. Certainly the Hasidic Jews and black people in Crown Heights aren't feeling the love. · 20 minutes ago
At least he'd have the benefit of personal experience, instead of "data." I live in an area that has a large black population, most are college-educated blacks that left D.C. and moved to the MD burbs to start families. I grew up in a very white homogenous community in TN, and after living here for the past few years, I've found that a lot of the prejudice toward blacks I was taught (mostly passively) growing up was unfounded. My experience my be merely anecdotal, but it's much harder to stereotype a race if you have friends of that race.
Oct '10
Re: Derbyshire Speaks
I don't know. I think the tests are biased--I took one on gay people, and supposedly I have a mild preference for straights, which is absurd (I have a preference for straight women and gay men, I'm bisexual. Trust me, my preferences are depressingly equal for both, as much as I wanted to settle down on one or the other when I was younger).
For the racial test, they seemed to use uncommonly unattractive black faces. I've met plenty of attractive black people in real life, and the samples in the test did not seem representative of the wider black population.
May '10
Re: Derbyshire Speaks
This whole incident saddens me. I've enjoyed his podcasts for years, despite his sometimes dour demeanor and perhaps idiosyncratic views on race (although you can hardly call the present article "idiosyncratic"; more like "jarring").
Last year I had two conversations with Derb by email, one on the topic of quaternions and his book Unknown Quantity, and the other about "words without antonyms" at which he expressed his annoyance in his July Diary on NRO.
Despite his generally bleak outlook on life (We Are Doomed) I found him to be a cheerful and charming fellow. He excitedly read a mathematical paper I had sent him and heartily wished me and my family a Merry Christmas. So despite not knowing him I have a personal affection toward him that makes it hard to see him suffer cancer and bring ruin on his writing career.
Oct '10
Re: Derbyshire Speaks
Karen
Leslie Katz
At least he'd have the benefit of personal experience, instead of "data." I live in an area that has a large black population, most are college-educated blacks that left D.C. and moved to the MD burbs to start families. I grew up in a very white homogenous community in TN, and after living here for the past few years, I've found that a lot of the prejudice toward blacks I was taught (mostly passively) growing up was unfounded. My experience my be merely anecdotal, but it's much harder to stereotype a race if you have friends of that race. · 5 minutes ago
Right, but a lot of this is class-based. If you went to a poor black neighborhood, you'd probably encounter a lot of cultural problems. What isn't talked about much is the same is true of poor white communities; the only difference is poor whites trust wealthier whites more than poor blacks trust wealthier blacks (which smoothes things over), but under the surface "white trash" communities have all kinds of nasty socioeconomic problems too.
May '10
Re: Derbyshire Speaks
Having taught in the public school system as well and at a predominantly black school in a urban, low-income area, I'd agree with your mom's assessment. The climate was one of utter despair. Academic intelligence and education is discouraged by black culture, but in poor areas there's plenty of information black children are expected to know and learn for survival.
May '10
Re: Derbyshire Speaks
Joseph Eagar:
My mother recently went into public education. From what she tells me, in much of black culture education is considered "acting white." If education and intelligence are punished by black culture, is it any surprise IQ tests are lower? · 17 minutes ago
Here is a little rumination on IQ and race by the great Thomas Sowell.
May '10
Re: Derbyshire Speaks
I took it. I guess I'm just the most virtuous one here! "Your data suggest little to no automatic preference between African American and European American."
I admit I had to concentrate much harder to be deliberately equitable during one of two the speed rounds than the other.
Re: Derbyshire Speaks
katievs: His defense makes me love him more, and want to console him with hope.
Shared religious and moral values trump racial differences. Eminem is as scary-alien to me as a black rap artist. But Cardinal Arinze is like a beloved grandfather. And this woman feels like my sister. · 12 hours ago
Beautifully, beautifully put.