Derbyshire Speaks
Douglas ·
April 11, 2012 at 4:11am
I know we've had a lot of posts about L'Affaire Derbyshire ($1 to Diane Ellis), but up till now, John Derbyshire himself has not commented. He's been given a forum to do so in one of the most unlikely of places: Gawker. They were surprisingly fair minded, he was frank, and the exchange is informative. Apparently, Derbyshire is more concerned with getting his chemo treatments right now than he is with responding to the firestorm he started. Lots of interesting info in the exchange.
Editor's Note: We've had a lot of spirited exchanges over the Derbyshire incident on the Member Feed over the past four days. Here are a few of the many Member-initiated conversations on the topic:
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Comments:
May '11
Re: Derbyshire Speaks
Thanks for the link. That was very interesting. When I have time I am going to take the Implicit Association Test. I doubt if I will be sharing the results however.
May '10
Re: Derbyshire Speaks
His defense makes me love him more, and want to console him with hope.
I think this paragraph especially interesting:
He's right that any clear-sighted, honest person should be able to see liberal policies will not and cannot heal racial divisions rooted in both nature and history. In some respects they make them much worse.
But that doesn't mean there aren't real grounds for hope in the possibility of racial harmony.
I think Derb is despairing because he lacks faith. Shared religious and moral values trump racial differences. Eminem is as scary-alien to me as a black rap artist. But Cardinal Arinze is like a beloved grandfather. And this woman feels like my sister.
May '10
Re: Derbyshire Speaks
I followed the link from a Derb column years ago, but found it too maddening to be taken seriously as an objective test. I bailed only a few questions in.
To my way of seeing things, natural preference for what is familiar has nothing to do with racism. We all naturally gravitate toward our own kind. Nothing wrong with that.
Racism is a theory or belief--either formal or implicit--that some races are superior to others as human beings.
I think the worst aspect of the piece that got Derb fired was that it suggested that IQ tests are objective measures not of intelligence, but of personal worth.
Mar '11
Re: Derbyshire Speaks
The thing that surprised me is that he was fired by email (and yes, I understand Derb's argument about what "fired" is and is not, but for the sake of brevity, we'll just say "fired" here). Maybe this is common practice in the publishing world... I wouldn't know as I'm not in publishing or media... but in other professions, you either tell someone face to face or call them. "Fired by email" to me just seems, I don't know... weaselly. Now I could very well be wrong if that's the way it works for editors and writers, but it doesn't work like that elsewhere.
Dec '11
Re: Derbyshire Speaks
katievs
I followed the link from a Derb column years ago, but found it too maddening to be taken seriously as an objective test. I bailed only a few questions in.
To my way of seeing things, natural preference for what is familiar has nothing to do with racism. We all naturally gravitate toward our own kind. Nothing wrong with that.
Racism is a theory or belief--either formal or implicit--that some races are superior to othersas human beings.
I think the worst aspect of the piece that got Derb fired was that it suggested that IQ tests are objective measures not of intelligence, but of personal worth. · 2 minutes ago
He did not say that average lower intelligence makes black people worth less as people.
Mar '11
Re: Derbyshire Speaks
We all naturally gravitate toward our own kind. Nothing wrong with that.
This, I think, is a very crucial point that we (Ricochet) ought to discuss at some point. The "love of one's own" or "amor soi" or whatever one wishes to call it has some very interesting facets that extend well beyond our present Derbyshire discontents.
Meanwhile, while I have been strongly critical in the last several days of Derbyshire (and will remain so) I ought to say this: I've listened to Radio Derb for the better part of the last two years. Its one of the podcasts--among very many--that is on ye old ipod. I found some of his running gags, Turkmenistan, for instance, funny. I can understand if someone were to take his largely good-natured sexism toward his "interns" the wrong way (although I always took it the sort of way one shakes of the casual racism of one's grand parents). I found some of his remarks during that time on race to be over the line.
For everything I have said, and which I strongly standby, leukemia is heinous. I wish him remission and recovery.
May '10
Re: Derbyshire Speaks
Guruforhire
He did not say that average lower intelligence makes black people worth less as people. · 22 minutes ago
He didn't say it, but the article as a whole suggested it, I thought.
Dec '11
Re: Derbyshire Speaks
katievs
Guruforhire
He did not say that average lower intelligence makes black people worth less as people. · 22 minutes ago
He didn't say it, but the article as a whole suggested it, I thought. · 1 minute ago
Fair enough. I am still personally stewing on it.
May '10
Re: Derbyshire Speaks
Crow's Nest:We all naturally gravitate toward our own kind. Nothing wrong with that.
This, I think, is a very crucial point that we (Ricochet) ought to discuss at some point. The "love of one's own" or "amor soi" or whatever one wishes to call it has some very interesting facets that extend well beyond our present Derbyshire discontents.
It also extends well beyond race to include nationalities, sex, age, religions, regions, economic standards, cultural values, politics, etc.
We gravitate toward what's familiar to us; we shy away from what's unfamiliar--until it becomes less so.
Edited on April 10, 2012 at 8:49pmMar '11
Re: Derbyshire Speaks
Guruforhire
He did not say that average lower intelligence makes black people worth less as people. · 22 minutes ago
Your right. That sentence appears nowhere in his piece.
But given the way his piece makes unwarranted logical leaps from IQ tests to everyday activities like car breakdowns, home-ownership, the character of blacks in public life, and one's actions if one happens to be in a place where's theirs too many of "them" (hey, let's be honest, it could break out into violence at any moment. Run away!) says it without saying it.
Again: let's note here, Derb's piece, even now, speaking after this incident, reprises his self-identification: "I am a racist, albeit a mild and tolerant one".
You don't have to don a white cowl for us to think your views are reprehensible and indefensible.
Mar '12
Re: Derbyshire Speaks
He's right that any clear-sighted, honest person should be able to see liberal policies will not and cannot heal racial divisions rooted in both nature and history. In some respects they make them much worse.
But that doesn't mean there aren't real grounds for hope in the possibility of racial harmony.
I think Derb is despairing because he lacks faith. Shared religious and moral values trump racial differences. Eminem is as scary-alien to me as a black rap artist. But Cardinal Arinze is like a beloved grandfather. And this woman feels like my sister. · 48 minutes ago
Cultural commonalities are MUCH more significant than racial ones. My husband grew up speaking another language on the other side of the world. But we had similar types of parents, went to similar schools, and have the same vocabulary of references. I have more in common with him and my in-laws than with many people of my race who grew up geographically proximate to me.
Mar '12
Re: Derbyshire Speaks
Also, did anyone else take the test? I apparently express a slight preference for Europeans.
Mar '11
Re: Derbyshire Speaks
katievs: It also extends well beyond race to include nationalities, sex, age, religions, regions, economic standards, cultural values, politics, etc.
We gravitate toward what's familiar to us; we shy away from what's unfamiliar--until it becomes less so.
Agreed!
I think, moreover, that this passion extends into the family itself--the regard of parents for their children and the sentiments that very powerful attachment gives rise to ("My daughter is the prettiest girl in the world!" "I love you, most of all.")
I also think it has consequences for one's place of birth, and one's country, and that this is largely salutary and life giving. It is the basis of a proper pride, esprit, patriotism.
The love of what is ours applies also to our traditions--one might say it is the very human foundation of our rootedness in a tradition which is eminently necessary for human life, and without which no other tradition of any kind can be understood.
Dec '11
Re: Derbyshire Speaks
Crow's Nest
Guruforhire
He did not say that average lower intelligence makes black people worth less as people. · 22 minutes ago
Your right. That sentence appears nowhere in his piece.
But given the way his piece makes unwarranted logical leaps from IQ tests to everyday activities like car breakdowns, home-ownership, the character of blacks in public life, and one's actions if one happens to be in a place where's theirs too many of "them" (hey, let's be honest, it could break out into violence at any moment. Run away!) says it without saying it.
Again: let's note here, Derb's piece, even now, speaking after this incident, reprises his self-identification: "I am a racist, albeit a mild and tolerant one".
You don't have to don a white cowl for us to think your views are reprehensible and indefensible. · 32 minutes ago
You are reading an implication of causation between things not actually implied as related to each other.
Edited on April 10, 2012 at 9:41pmMar '11
Re: Derbyshire Speaks
No such logical leap is written either. The 2 issues are never related to each other.
Probably a merely coincidence that the two appear next to each other in paragraph after paragraph in a piece that runs barely two web pages.
Nothing to see here.
Aug '10
Re: Derbyshire Speaks
I really like Derb and find his writing to be highly amusing. I don't believe he is racist but I think his "empirical" conclusions lead him down the wrong path on race just as they do on religion.
I hate to see him part ways with NR but his article put the magazine in a tough spot so I can see why they terminated their relationship with him. I wish him the best is his battle against cancer.
I'd still love to have lunch with him sometime.
Dec '11
Re: Derbyshire Speaks
More than one thing can be true while not being caused by other.
Nor are they mentioned next to each other in paragraph after paragraph
In paragraph 5 intelligence is mentioned in passing to illuminate the variance in the inconsequential extremes. For instance the fastest male runner is faster than the fastest female runner.
In paragraph 11, intelligence makes its first substantive appearence in which he makes a fairly incontroversial claim that intelligence will have life consequences, he substantiates this poorly.
in paragraph 12, he indicates that due to affirmative action, black people as a group are disproportionately represented in cognitive positions. This is not unreasonable and on the surface sound. This is not a sweeping generalization about all blacks, only a comment on distribution. It is no more controversial than proposing that the lower pushup and runtime requirements for the ladies in the US Army has resulted in a higher number of women in the service than there otherwise would be.
13-14-15 while intelligent is mentioned it is not a discussion of intelligence.
All of this qualified by the bulk of paragraph 5
Edited on April 10, 2012 at 10:15pmDec '10
Re: Derbyshire Speaks
The Gawker story lead me to something which I found more interesting, and more grating:
http://gawker.com/5900710/announcing-our-newest-hire-a-current-fox-news-channel-employee
We are Doomed.
Jul '10
Re: Derbyshire Speaks
I am far more concerned with the leukemia diagnosis. Leukemia is a hideously painful disease. I lost a friend to it many years ago. A brilliant young man who left a wonderful wife and five children very active children.My deepest wishes for a full and robust recovery. This is not be the piece I will think of when his name comes up.
Feb '12
Re: Derbyshire Speaks
I can't speak for "big league" online publishing, but when I was writing professionally for WoW Insider (yes, I'm a mild World of Warcraft junkie), I pitched my column, filled out my employment paperwork, submitted my columns, and was fired all through email and other web services. I never talked to my boss voice-to-voice; any one-on-one conversations were done through instant messaging services.
Web publishing is a much more relaxed world.