Democracy in America
... I confess that in America I saw more than America; I sought there the image of democracy itself, with its inclinations, its character, its prejudices, and its passions, in order to learn what we have to fear or to hope from its progress.
"I really wish I had the time and money to rent a car and drive through America and write about it. This country is really interesting."
"What's so interesting?"
"About America?"
"Yes."
"Well, don't you think it's interesting that he comes from a family of Idaho survivalists?"
"I guess, but no stranger than the fact that you come from a family of creationists."
HOW RELIGION IN THE UNITED STATES AVAILS ITSELF OF DEMOCRATIC TENDENCIES
"The public swimming pool has a sign advertising 'Muslim Swims.'"
"That's weird. What does that mean?"
"Well, I'd love to know. There are no 'Jewish swims' at the public pool."
OF THE USE WHICH THE AMERICANS MAKE OF PUBLIC ASSOCIATIONS IN CIVIL LIFE
"What if a Muslim women's group rents the pool for a private swimming hour?"
"What about Muslim men?"
"It's a private group of Muslim women who rent the pool. For other Muslim women."
"I oppose this. I think 'women-only' swimming is fine, but I know for a fact the Koran is silent on the issue of swimming, as any text written in the Arabian peninsula in the 7th century would be."
"I agree that the spirit of the Muslim Swim is un-American."
"Yes. Muslims have many ways of swimming. It is wrong to stereotype the swimming of 1.2 billion individual human beings."
"How do they test if you're really a Muslim at Muslim Swim? Do you have to recite the Koran or something?"
"That's what I want to know."
"I guess, my question is whether this is more like a private club renting the pool and giving it an offensive-sounding name, or is it really a Muslim-only swim?"
"There would be serious tensions if the Kemalists rented it during the hour before and refused to leave."
PECULIAR EFFECTS OF THE LOVE OF PHYSICAL GRATIFICATION IN DEMOCRATIC TIMES
"But I also think that there is enough pool space in Seattle that if the Muslim women want an hour at the pool just for themselves, that's okay, too. As long as Muslim women are not obligated to attend Muslim swim, I guess I really don't care much."
"Yes, but what if you're a Muslim girl and you want to swim with American boys and get stoned with them and make out behind the pool? Like a normal American girl? We need to make sure every girl in America feels welcome to do that."
"Why? I mean, of all the things to worry about, why that one?"
"Because that's what made America great. Getting stoned in Seattle when I was a teenager and thinking about nothing but sex."
(Later)
"I miss those days."
HOW EQUALITY OF CONDITION CONTRIBUTES TO MAINTAIN GOOD MORALS IN AMERICA
"Yeah, it would be a shame for all Muslim girls to miss out on that. But you know, maybe they are doing it, you know? And this is more for the Muslim moms?"
"What, like they're not entitled to adultery? What would Mercer Island circa 1978 have been without co-ed swimming?"
WHY AMONG THE AMERICANS ALL HONEST CALLINGS ARE CONSIDERED HONORABLE
"I'd love to understand who, exactly, is doing all this incredibly labor-intensive gardening. The ratio of manicured gardens to humans in Seattle doesn't seem economically possible."
"Yeah, I noticed that too."
"Someone talks about 'hiring Mexicans,' then someone else scolds him and says 'You should say day laborers.' But it is completely understood that they are illegal workers and no one finds it odd to break the law to hire them."
"Yeah, I noticed that."
WHAT ARE THE REAL ADVANTAGES WHICH AMERICAN SOCIETY DERIVES FROM A DEMOCRATIC GOVERNMENT
"Do pools in other countries have lifeguards?"
"Yes. They do. Why?"
"I don't think I've ever seen one at a pool in Turkey. That struck me, that there is someone employed, full-time, to watch everyone swim. But maybe that's normal."
"Although the lifeguards at the beach on Lake Washington are the most aggressively protective lifeguards I've ever seen."
"I guess you don't want to be known as the lifeguard who lost one while you were getting stoned and making out behind the pool."
"In Seattle, they have one guard out in the boat and the other on shore. And they make grown men and women stop wading and get on the beach when they switch positions."
"Is it illegal to swim without one?"
"No, you can swim right next door to the public beach and there's no lifeguard. But if you swim at the public beach where the lifeguard is stationed, then you have to respect the rules. It's all very reasonable and safe."
HOW THE AMERICANS COMBAT INDIVIDUALISM BY THE PRINCIPLE OF SELF-INTEREST RIGHTLY UNDERSTOOD
"I guess if you lose someone, you get sued."
"I guess."
"So it makes sense to be really vigilant."
"I think preventing a child's death is also a sufficient incentive."
"Well, except that in Turkey, for example, it's not."
"And since the lifeguards are paid for by the city, there's also a political incentive to making sure that the job is done right."
"What's weird is that Americans are so rule-abiding about this, but the law about not hiring people who are here illegally is not something taken very seriously."
"Lots of rules are ignored in America. The rule about illegal downloading, for example."
"But people like and respect 'safety' rules."
"Yes, they do."
GOVERNMENT OF THE DEMOCRACY IN AMERICA
"I'm into the debt ceiling negotiations too. I can't figure out who I'm rooting for, though."
"I thought I explained who to root for on Ricochet?"
INFLUENCE OF DEMOCRACY ON THE FAMILY
"I always assume political opinions that are the opposite of yours, however. And I can't remember what your opinion was. So I don't know what to oppose."
"There is, of course, kind of a psychological temptation to root for Apocalypse, just to prove to everyone that I was right."
"It's not the Apocalypse. Lots of Biblical scholars are agreeing about that."
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May '11
Re: Democracy in America
Totally awesome. I would try to add something intelligent but I am still lost in contemplation of getting stoned and making out behind the pool.
Sep '10
Re: Democracy in America
I wonder how the tolerant liberals of Seattle feel about the idea of 'Muslim Swims'. Of course, if a church group paid for 'Catholic Swims' or 'Christian Swims' it would make the Daily Show.
Edited on Jul 23, 2011 at 9:30amMay '10
Re: Democracy in America
Claire, I've been on the road most of the week and my day job has monopolized my time so I may be reading this post entirely out of context. Still, I can't shake the feeling that you regard the U.S. almost as an anthropologist regards some long-lost Amazon tribe. I understand you seem to be coming across some people saying some risible, head slapping things, but your take seems to be very condescending toward the entire country and very much unwarranted. Am I reading too much into this or missing the boat completely?
May '10
Re: Democracy in America
Reading this is a little like contemplating a painting by Wassily Kandinsky.
Jun '10
Re: Democracy in America
I agree. I read this and thought, "How solipsistic........ what exactly is the point?"
And knowing, as I do, hundreds of "normal American" girls (including my daughter) who would never get stoned, much less get stoned and make out with a random guy in public, it really annoyed me! Don't get me started on how insulting this is to the fantastic girls I personally know who are dedicated and vigilant lifeguards here in Jersey, working on our ocean beaches, lakes and pools.
Aug '10
Re: Democracy in America
2 hot 4 thought
Edited on Jul 23, 2011 at 2:59pmRe: Democracy in America
Definitely my aim wasn't condescension, but to try to make some old and important observations about America in a different way--and to prompt a conversation about de Toqueville and the degree to which his observations still apply.
I start to bore myself when I try to say the same things in the very same way every day, so I figured Ricochet might be getting bored with hearing me say them the same way, too. I can't be the best judge of whether that worked, but I appreciate Ricochet's collective patience in letting me try a few literary experiments from time to time.
I hoped the post would be read as something "like Kandinsky," not as something "solipsistic and incomprehensible"--but I'm open to the idea that no one wants to hear from a pundit in her abstract phase.
May '10
Re: Democracy in America
Claire Berlinski, Ed.
Definitely my aim wasn't condescension, but to try to make some old and important observations about America in a different way--and to prompt a conversation about de Toqueville and the degree to which his observations still apply.
I think I missed the boat entirely (I have a dense skull, as several members of my family will attest). If you'll permit me to be so bold, I have a few suggestions. First, simply from your Ricochet posts I think that you travel to the absolute worst places in the U.S. to look for evidence of Toqueville's America. Second - and this is certainly bold enough to cross the line into rudeness - I'd urge you to move back here for a time. If you do, settle for awhile in a place that doesn't immediately spring to mind. I'm thinking somewhere like Indianapolis, Des Moines, Birmingham, Kansas City, Dallas, Jacksonville, Richmond or Raleigh. I think you'll find that which you hope exists still does.
Now, having thoroughly shredded the line separating me from the inappropriate, I will desist!
Re: Democracy in America
The odd thing, Matthew, is that I think you read this post as evidence of my not seeing it--and I think what I was getting at (perhaps too obliquely)--is how struck I am by the sense that many elements of the America de Toqueville described are on fact on display, or at least how relevant he remains.
May '10
Re: Democracy in America
Claire Berlinski, Ed.
The odd thing, Matthew, is that I think you read this post as evidence of my not seeing it--and I think what I was getting at (perhaps too obliquely)--is how struck I am by the sense that many elements of the America de Toqueville described are on fact on display, or at least how relevant he remains. · Jul 23 at 5:13pm
Wow - I didn't just miss the boat: it seems I went to the airport trying to find it. If you'll permit it, Claire, I'd like to invoke the Richard Nixon/Ronald Zeigler privilege and declare all my prior statements inoperative. My sincere apologies for trampling all over this thread.
Edited on Jul 23, 2011 at 5:33pmRe: Democracy in America
Actually, while that's gracious of you, I think you're right--that post needed at least an introduction to suggest what I was getting at. Now that I look at it again, I see that.
Let me try re-introducing it. These are conversations, obviously, that I've had in the past few days--real ones. I was going to note some of them with my own observations about the complex, interesting way America governs itself, and then it struck me: "You know, Claire, you're not exactly the first person to observe this." This led to a frantic middle-of-the-night re-reading of Democracy in America (which I hadn't read in ages) and the thought, "It's amazing how many of these observations apply to these situations."
Re: Democracy in America
And I'm curious--does anyone else see in these exchanges, or at least in the situations described, a great deal of what De Toqueville noticed?
Aug '10
Re: Democracy in America
When talking with teenagers - and I believe this enjoyably whimsical post is not at all about Tocqueville or "America" but about talking with teenagers - I like to say, or even sing, Evinde gitarın var mı?/Gidelim öyleyse! You should try that on 'em. Translate it for 'em. Even give 'em an Internet citation. "Turks have guitars? At home? When they say, 'Let's go,' where can that possibly be?"
Well, excuse me. I was just practicing this very song on my guitar, and thought I'd mention it. I like pitching these things to my instructor. He always responds nobly. I especially like describing to him the circumstances under which foreign rock stars develop. "There is no such thing as a San Antonio garage in Istanbul." Unlike both my instructor and me, these guys got formal arts educations...and how weird is that?
To summarize, then: never mind Americans - they're American. Mind foreigners - they're the ones who are bizarre and have a lot of heavy explaining to do.
Nov '10
Re: Democracy in America
I don't get it at all....but I'm not nearly as smart as the rest of you....I feel like I'm looking at art that I also don't understand, because skipped that class most of the time.
Nov '10
Re: Democracy in America
I do, however, know that this is the best part of the whole post: "I thought I explained who to root for on Ricochet?"
Apr '11
Re: Democracy in America
The Tea Party is all about what deToqueville observed. But beyond the Tea Party there are still yeoman Jacksonian Republicans and Democrats to be found in many localities and and they are quietly, resolutely POd.
PS: This Jacksonian Democrat wouldn't swim in a pool or beach like that. If I want to drown, it's my right to do so. The possibility of drowning makes one concentrate on the skill of swimming.
May '11
Re: Democracy in America
I thought it was a very clever reinterpretation of deToqueville and I was not offended by a sense of condecension but I am not usually perceptive enough to be offended by that sort of thing. Our sense of democracy has become mundane and trivial in many ways but that is not an entirely bad thing. It remains part of the fabric of our lives and manifest in many small strange daily conversations, even on strange websites.
May '11
Re: Democracy in America
I applied streaks and blobs of colors onto the canvas with a palette knife, and I made them sing with all the intensity I could... (Wassily Kandinsky)
I was familiar with Kandinsky's paintings but had never read anything he wrote until I googled him. A great exercise in the use of language would be "What a Great Painter would say if he posted on Ricochet". I think it is beyond my skill or knowledge.
Edited on Jul 24, 2011 at 10:10am