Davutoğlu ♥ the Islamic Republic. Dr. Berlinski to the red courtesy phone.
The development raised further concerns that Turkish foreign policy was tilting outside the sphere of the Western alliance towards alignment with its eastern neighbour.
A Turkish official said Ahmed Davutoglu, Turkey's foreign minister, had opened "negotiations" on the targeting of the missiles at a preliminary meeting in Brussels last week.
Turkey said it does not want the system to exclusively target any neighbouring country.
"Within this frame, we do not lean towards the idea of defining countries like Iran, Syria and Russia as threats," a foreign ministry official said. "The minister has conveyed our opinion on the subject."
Nato's policy of operating by consensus would mean that a formal Turkish objection would scupper the US project to place anti-missile systems in Poland and the Czech Republic.
It's good thing Ahmet Bey wasn't around to object to NATO's exclusively targeting the Soviet Union as the threat to peace in Europe. Which was kind of its whole raison d'être.
I hope the State and Defense Departments push back against this kind of reckless nonsense.
- Comment (12)
- · Quote
- · UnfollowFollow (2)
Comments :
Jul '10
Re: Davutoğlu ♥ the Islamic Republic. Dr. Berlinski to the red courtesy phone.
Time to send Hillary Clinton with a "reset" button.
Turkish foreign minister:
"Oh, Secretary Clinton. What a clever device. Unfortunately, this in Turkish does not mean "reset", it means "flatulence".
Re: Davutoğlu ♥ the Islamic Republic. Dr. Berlinski to the red courtesy phone.
I have much to say about this--as you can imagine--but I must sleep first. Keep talking among yourselves ...
Jul '10
Re: Davutoğlu ♥ the Islamic Republic. Dr. Berlinski to the red courtesy phone.
When Turkey disintegrated during WWI, her empire (we call it the "Middle East" today) was divided up among the winners, ie France and England. In an attempt to explain this failure, the Turks adopted what they saw as Modernity, ie, the European kind. (I know, this was a process that reached back through the 19th century)... And the main beneficiary of that 'modernization' was the Turkish Armed Forces.
But, now there is lots of wealth to be found in the Middle East, independent of European and American power and wealth. Now, why should the Turks quietly go along with 20th century powers, the ones who have sneered at them, and are, moreover, not so impressive anymore, when at the dawn of the 21st century, it sees itself as a true Power, one that has the potential to once again dominate the Middle East (its old Empire). Turkey will of course be alternatively an ally and an enemy of a weakened Russia. And then there is Iran.
I sympathise with such moves by Turkey, altho I know that these moves are not to my own civilization's advantage. But then, my civilization is the weak horse now.
Jul '10
Re: Davutoğlu ♥ the Islamic Republic. Dr. Berlinski to the red courtesy phone.
Bill Walsh: It's good thing Ahmet Bey wasn't around to object to NATO's exclusively targeting the Soviet Union as the threat to peace in Europe. Which was kind of its whole raison d'être.
I hope the State and Defense Departments push back against this kind of reckless nonsense. ·
No kidding. This seems more like typical U.N. behavior than NATO.
Of course we shouldn't have eastern European anti-ballistic missles unfairly "targeting" Iran, Syria, or Russia if we're not going to "target," oh I don't know, who else in the region has missiles and isn't a member of NATO?
(hint: It's larger than a breadbasket, but not much, and has a minority Arab population.)
Oct '10
Re: Davutoğlu ♥ the Islamic Republic. Dr. Berlinski to the red courtesy phone.
Bill Walsh: From the Telegraph.
Ha! Ha ha ha! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
Stop it! You're killing me over here!
Re: Davutoğlu ♥ the Islamic Republic. Dr. Berlinski to the red courtesy phone.
heathermc, to take your question literally (you may have meant it rhetorically), the reason Turkey should "go quietly," or in other words, act in cooperation with, the 20th century powers is simple--its new friends are not friends at all, but rather scheming to do exactly what every Turk has been born and raised to fear foreign powers will do: weaken Turkey, exploit it, and possibly even dismember it. That's what's so extraordinary about this new Turkish foreign policy alignment: There is no rational, Realpolitik justification for it. The line that this shift is "rational" is what Davutoglu has been peddling to the West, which for some reason accepts it uncritically. "Yes, we don't like it, it's not good for us, but we can see why it's logical for Turkey." Actually, it's not remotely logical for Turkey. The day Iran announces that it is a nuclear state is the day Turkey's regional economic, diplomatic and military influence comes to an end forever, along with its aspiration to be the leading influence in the Islamic world. So the policy cannot even be understood in terms of the AKP's crypto-Islamism. (1)
Re: Davutoğlu ♥ the Islamic Republic. Dr. Berlinski to the red courtesy phone.
Nor can it be explained in terms of its so-called "neo-Ottomanism." I can think of not a single Ottoman who would have played this game so foolishly. (Can you, Bill?) I've been looking at this from every conceivable angle, trying to understand what Davutoglu is thinking here, trying to figure out if there's any rational aspect to this policy that I'm overlooking, and I just can't find one. Turkey could be playing both sides of this skillfully and to advantage, but it isn't: It's alienating Israel and its NATO allies deeply and pointlessly while gaining few meaningful concessions or benefits from its new acquaintances-- "allies" is too strong a word--in return. Looking at this as "Islamism in action" doesn't account for moves such as inviting China into the regional fray. Trade with Iran may bring in a few bucks, short term, but focusing on that to the exclusion of joining the EU? Economically nuts. This is just sheer diplomatic incompetence, which no one is pointing out because everyone is swallowing Davutoglu's own PR line: "Trust us, we know what we're doing!" (2)
Edited on Oct 18, 2010 at 8:51pmJul '10
Re: Davutoğlu ♥ the Islamic Republic. Dr. Berlinski to the red courtesy phone.
Claire, aside from Iranian nukes, I think Turkey has a lot of advantages in the coming century. Of course, it would be better for Turkey if it were to cooperate with India and Israel at this point in her history. But from a geographical point of view, sitting as she does between a fractured Middle East, and a weakened Russia, she has a definite chance to become at least a regional power. I would think the religious folk now running Turkey believe that unity will be rendered if Islam is strengthened throughout Anatolia. I think they are wrong. But belief can do amazing things to a society. And then there are the Turkic speakers through southern Russia.
Iran is real. That is Turkey's genuine problem right now. But then, Iran is Israel's problem and Saudi Arabia's problem and India's problem too. Vienna should be measuring the distance from Teheran to itself, too (given 1685 and all that.)
But, Turkey is not Western. So its way into this next century will not be "western", or "european."
Edited on Oct 18, 2010 at 8:56pmRe: Davutoğlu ♥ the Islamic Republic. Dr. Berlinski to the red courtesy phone.
I don't know my late Ottomans well, though the Triumvirate might have made some similarly egregious calls. Certainly throwing in their lot with the Central Powers was a mortal blunder, but I don't know how foreseeable that was.
The main thing is that from about 1500–1923, Persia was the Ottomans' natural rival for influence in “the East” (eventually along with, and to some degree superceded by, Russia in the Caucasus and Crimea, etc.). Which East includes not only the borderlands up through the Caucasus, but basically most of eastern Anatolia as well.
So I'm rather baffled as to what the Turkish national interest in cozying up to traditionally hostile powers on your periphery (let's include Syria here) is actually supposed to be. If I had to guess, I'd say this is a domestic-political game by Erdoğan, et al., that could potentially have disastrous real-world results.
But, as ever, I dunno.
Re: Davutoğlu ♥ the Islamic Republic. Dr. Berlinski to the red courtesy phone.
And, as for “neo-Ottomanism,” it's a very gauzy, romanticized, not to mention ahistorical “Ottoman Empire” they’re hyping. And you know how well basing your governmental model on historical fantasies usually goes…
Jul '10
Re: Davutoğlu ♥ the Islamic Republic. Dr. Berlinski to the red courtesy phone.
I guess the real issue is the declining power of Europe and the USA. Turkey has to make its own plans in this new century. This has to be in the light of the American relative decline vis a vis India and China.
America elected a president and class of people who are lovers of the weak horse. This is of course a foolish act. The Tea Party and its allies may be able to pull America out of its current hole via elections, but reality (again) means it must deal HONESTLY with social security, pensions, and an inadequate balance between the elderly and the young.
Also, MOST of America's allies are even more disabled (ie, Canada, let alone Europe) in terms of an ability to continue to 'fund' jolly old things like the 5th fleet. China and India will, on the other hand, are willing to take the hit to do so.
And Turkey knows this. Turkey must go its own way, and if Islam is in the long run a rickety horse, well, its must find other ways; but then, what is failure anyway? Not being like a Canadian suburb, with its laws and regulations???
Edited on Oct 18, 2010 at 11:14pmRe: Davutoğlu ♥ the Islamic Republic. Dr. Berlinski to the red courtesy phone.
I disagree, Heathermc, and most Turkish diplomats and surely most of its military planners would disagree, too. Turkey's not going to find a better security arrangement to confront the real strategic threats it faces than NATO. If I were making Turkish foreign policy, I'd be clinging to NATO like a drowning man clinging to a life raft. I'm talking strictly power-politics here, not ideological alliances.