Curious in California
In the wake of the Tucson shooting, some Democrats are predictably attempting to gut the first and second amendments, put restrictions on free speech and gun ownership. I have a question: leaving aside matters of sex and drug use, can anyone think of an area where Democrats support more political freedom, more liberty, more... American-ness? Not that I have anything against sex and drugs, by the way. Hey, I'm married and take Crestor! But while I support libertarian freedoms in these areas, it does seem to me the injudicious use of either leads to the need for more government care, leading to more restrictions in political life. In other words, pushing drugs and sex is arguably yet another way of gaining political control over people.
So again: is there any POLITICAL area in which the left supports MORE freedom?
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Jun '10
Re: Curious in California
They like to give their Dear Leader lots of freedom, to do all that messy political housekeeping that it takes to run a utopian state.
May '10
Re: Curious in California
I believe it can be said that those Democrats who support the recognition of abortion rights ipso facto support more political freedom, but many of those Democrats tend to endorse the subsidization of abortions which reduces overall political freedom and I gather many here will disagree with me. But yes, Democrats qua recognizers of abortion rights.
Re: Curious in California
Well, I suppose abortion rights support the freedom of ONE of the people involved... but actually, I was including that with sexual freedom, since that seems to be abortion's ultimate aim.
Aug '10
Re: Curious in California
How easily the Left can take the right off offense and compel it to fully redirect its resources into its habitual defensive role.
It's embarrassing.
Jun '10
Re: Curious in California
The fact we have to bend our brains to think of a single case speaks for itself, no? Rather more interesting is that some people on the left have slipped up in public revealing quite clearly their thoughts and objectives. Waters, Pelosi, and Stark come to mind. I can't remember the name, but another congressman was caught saying that "people have to be controlled." What we've long suspected is now public record. Conservatives are now free to act without reservations. If the libs want a fight, I say "bring it!"
May '10
Re: Curious in California
I think these are ways in which Democrats support civil liberites:
-They wish to legalize stem-cell research (and to subsidize it too, but I discount this for the moment)
-They support assisted suicide
These will trickle through as I scan the internet.
May '10
Re: Curious in California
I also tend to agree with some Democrats in their opposition to the Iraq war. I know I wouldn't want to die for the sake of Iraqis, either to vote for their favorite Islamic parties/laws or not.
Jul '10
Re: Curious in California
Cosigned Ammendments, from the left.
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof unless people find it offensive in the public square; or abridging the freedom of speech unless it's hateful, or of the press, unless it is unfair; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances, unless they are racists.
A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed, just restricted or prohibited.
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized, which is to say that abortions shall be available without any infringement what-so-ever.
See, they are all for liberty and support the Constitution!
Edited on Jan 11, 2011 at 9:49amJun '10
Re: Curious in California
It seems that all of the Dem's "freedoms" involve the powerful murdering the unpowerful and using their discarded remains for experiments. What a free and prosperous ideology!
May '10
Re: Curious in California
By this do you mean abortion and stem-cell research?
Aug '10
Re: Curious in California
Ramesh put it very well a couple of years ago.
Abortion, stem cells, groningen. Death, death, death.
And this is to take place after they confirm the death of God
and the beatification of this guy.
Jun '10
Re: Curious in California
Michael Labeit
By this do you mean abortion and stem-cell research? · Jan 11 at 9:23am
Yes.
Andrew Klavan: Well, I suppose abortion rights support the freedom of ONE of the people involved... but actually, I was including that with sexual freedom, since that seems to be abortion's ultimate aim. · Jan 11 at 8:04am
It seems Mr. Klavan agrees that the unborn person is indeed a person, but perhaps that the mother still has a right to kill the person because of sexual freedom?....or maybe that's the position of some on the left... I'm confused.
Aug '10
Re: Curious in California
Do we really disagree with this statement? I believe that we all need to be controlled. The important point is, I believe that a free people, each and every one, needs to control themselves. Ordered liberty is not absolute license, not anarchy.
I think what we disagree with is the unstated follow-up, "they need to be controlled by their betters, which is to say, us."
Aug '10
Re: Curious in California
Are they actually in favor of pushing sex and drugs?
They are certainly in favor of defending freedom from responsibility from the consequences of drug use and licentious sexual behavior, but I would disagree that they are pushing sex and drugs.
Do not many liberals want to regulate media content to prevent the glamorization of drug use or the objectification of women in sexual imagery?
One could likely extend the freedom from responsibility to cover other areas as well.
"It's all society's fault after all."
For example, they want to prevent you from smoking, but want to make sure that I pay for your health care if you acquire cancer from the vice.
May '10
Re: Curious in California
I almost forgot gay marriage as well. I think support for gay marriage constitutes support for political freedom.
May '10
Re: Curious in California
Sex. . .drugs. . .whoa, dude? What else is there?
Dec '10
Re: Curious in California
It depends on how you define "freedom". In his recent book Andrew McCarthy noted Islamists have a different definition of freedom than we do, as did Rousseau, as did Lenin.
The left supports a lot of "freedom froms" -- freedom from hostility, freedom from insult, freedom from losing, freedom from risk, freedom from want, etc. Political correctness on university campuses allegedly provides a lot of "freedom froms" and supposedly creates a freer atmosphere and environment for all.
I think they support more "freedom from conservatives". So they'd like to root out conservatives, force them to wear big red "C"s on their clothing, lock them up in stocks and pillories in the town square when they use "harsh" language, and send them to reeducation classes, or camps, if deemed necessary.
Many of the laws and regulations they propose, such as the current proposal to outlaw certain metaphorical language in political discourse, are "freedom from" laws.
In short, they define freedom differently than conservatives do.
Edited on Jan 11, 2011 at 11:17amNov '10
Re: Curious in California
"Gay rights" falls under sexual issues.
May '10
Re: Curious in California
Charles, well then it seems that "sex and drugs" constitute rather broad areas regarding the establishment or non-establishment of political freedom, unlike the insinuation by some.
Jan '11
Re: Curious in California
That would be Rep. John Dingell, responding to the question of why Obamacare benefits would not start until 2014:
"Let me remind you this [Americans allegedly dying because of lack of universal health care] has been going on for years. We are bringing it to a halt. The harsh fact of the matter is when you're going to pass legislation that will cover 300 [million] American people in different ways it takes a long time to do the necessary administrative steps that have to be taken to put the legislation together to control the people."