Culture War In A String Bikini – Asbury Park to be Invaded by Agorists!
Yesterday I posted about a fun little news wave sweeping the country, centered around my hometown of Asbury Park, New Jersey deciding whether to enforce a 50-year-old ban on bathing suits on the boardwalk. Some swimmers (posers, really) push the limits of decorum by limiting the amount of material they call a bathing suit, to the chagrin of the more high-browed and punctilious board walkers.
I wondered if this was indicative of a socially conservative backlash to the socially liberal policies of the Obama Administration.
In keeping with the scientific maxim that every action has an equal and opposite reaction, along comes a counter-backlash, but it’s not exactly from the American left.
Some folks in Asbury Park are scheduling Saturday, July 14, 2012 as a day where everyone should come to the boardwalk wearing “skimpy swimsuits” as an anti-statist measure of protest.
But look closely at their advertisement. The invite goes out not only to the usual Asbury Park rabble of artists and musicians (they’re always around anyway), but also to all “Agorists.”
Agorists?!?! What fun!
Agorism is a Libertarian sandwich flavored with market economy and anarchy. Picture a free market so free there is no government restriction on selling anything currently illegal (Counter Economy), a nation with no borders or foreign policy, unregulated pharmaceuticals and no social mores regarding relationships. Sort of like Sodom and Gomorrah, but with banking.
One wonders if this is how ghettos are created (I use ghetto in its Venetian sense meaning “like people in one place,” devoid of issues of poverty which attached itself to the definition in later centuries).
Assume Asbury Park becomes a place where skin is in and modesty is out. There go the families from the boardwalk. Say goodbye to the modest, the churchgoers and the elderly (except weird elderly like Jerry Sandusky). Asbury Park will become a ghetto of the decadent, which will be a mistake for the city because the decadent don’t have a lot of money to spend on touristy things. Wealthy suburbanites looking for a beach day do, and they prefer the company of the clothed.
It will be an interesting issue for the courts to tackle. I envision some semi-nudist challenging the bathing suit ban and the court having to decide if Asbury Park has a legitimate government interest in preserving decorum in an area where they are trying to sell a product to those who respect decorum. There seems to be precedent for it, if not in law then at least in the marketplace, as I have been to plenty of businesses that require collared shirts or jackets and ties (conceding those are not public thoroughfares).
Rather than the courts, this culture war will have to be fought out on the boardwalk itself. However, the barely-dressed hold the upper hand. Others will certainly stay away not to see them, while the reverse is not true – no man in a bikini has ever claimed to be uncomfortable by seeing someone clothed.
Post script: Ricochet member Conservative Episcopalian had a good idea: To shame the public nudies, we should take photos of them and put them on a website. I fully expect CE in Asbury Park, camera clicking, on July 14. Try not to get arrested.
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Feb '11
Re: Culture War In A String Bikini – Asbury Park to be Invaded by Agorists!
Tommy De Seno
Sort of like Sodom and Gomorrah, but with banking.
Why on earth would you assume that Sodom and Gomorrah had no banking?
Re: Culture War In A String Bikini – Asbury Park to be Invaded by Agorists!
Israel Pickholtz
Tommy De Seno
Sort of like Sodom and Gomorrah, but with banking.
Why on earth would you assume that Sodom and Gomorrah had no banking? · 2 minutes ago
It's a loose matphor Is, not a literal comparison.
May '10
Re: Culture War In A String Bikini – Asbury Park to be Invaded by Agorists!
Loose metaphors... Isn't that the idea behind the ban? I mean, who wants to see your loose metaphor?
Re: Culture War In A String Bikini – Asbury Park to be Invaded by Agorists!
Very funny!
Edited on June 27, 2012 at 7:30pmAug '10
Re: Culture War In A String Bikini – Asbury Park to be Invaded by Agorists!
Tommy De Seno
Agorism is a Libertarian sandwich flavored with market economy and anarchy. Picture free market so free there is no government restriction on selling anything currently illegal (Counter Economy), a nation with no borders or foreign policy, unregulated pharmaceuticals and no social mores regarding relationships.
Libertarianism = no social mores? Gag me. Now. How thick do you have to be to see no difference between Hayekian spontaneous order and disorder?
How many serious libertarian thinkers actually believe in living a life without mores of some kind? Sure, there are plenty of immature snots out there who like to think that libertarianism means smashing all customs, but even "anarcho-capitalists" like David Friedman know the worth of custom. (In fact DF sometimes champions custom over formal law.)
Though perhaps I'm making a question-begging distinction: I can't consider a libertarian who's unable to recognize the advantages of having customs a serious libertarian thinker.
Re: Culture War In A String Bikini – Asbury Park to be Invaded by Agorists!
Midget Faded Rattlesnake
Tommy De Seno
Agorism is a Libertarian sandwich flavored with market economy and anarchy. Picture free market so free there is no government restriction on selling anything currently illegal (Counter Economy), a nation with no borders or foreign policy, unregulated pharmaceuticals and no social mores regarding relationships.
Libertarianism = no social mores? Gag me. Now. How thick do you have to be to see no difference between Hayekian spontaneous order and disorder?
How many serious libertarian thinkers actually believe in living a life without mores of some kind? Sure, there are plenty of immature snots out there who like to think that libertarianism means smashing all customs, but even "anarcho-capitalists" like David Friedman know the worth of custom. (In fact DF sometimes champions custom over formal law.)
Though perhaps I'm making a question-begging distinction: I can't consider a libertarian who's unable to recognize the advantages of having customs a serious libertarian thinker. · 0 minutes ago
Agreed. I see them more as Anarchists, but they insist upon being put under the umbrella of Libertarian.
Aug '10
Re: Culture War In A String Bikini – Asbury Park to be Invaded by Agorists!
But aren't your metaphors actually looser in a roomy pair of swimming trunks than in a tight Speedo?
Edited on June 27, 2012 at 11:23pmNov '11
Re: Culture War In A String Bikini – Asbury Park to be Invaded by Agorists!
Midget Faded Rattlesnake
Tommy De Seno
Agorism is a Libertarian sandwich flavored with market economy and anarchy. Picture free market so free there is no government restriction on selling anything currently illegal (Counter Economy), a nation with no borders or foreign policy, unregulated pharmaceuticals and no social mores regarding relationships.
Though perhaps I'm making a question-begging distinction: I can't consider a libertarian who's unable to recognize the advantages of having customs a serious libertarian thinker. · 5 minutes ago
I think one of the problems with the libertarian model is that it requires custom to function. The more custom breaks down the more governance is required to ensure the smooth operation of society. And the more governance, the more customs breaks down which is why you see a slide to totalitarianism in most established governments.
Most libertarians I've spoken with feel that they'd rather break the governance cycle in government than grow responsibility first because they believe that responsibility and its customs can only form when there are consequences in the real world. And there's something to that.
May '10
Re: Culture War In A String Bikini – Asbury Park to be Invaded by Agorists!
Metaphorically speaking, a loose metaphor in a Speedo is not as bad as a dangling participle in short shorts. Although I admire a women with a well endowed double entandre.
Re: Culture War In A String Bikini – Asbury Park to be Invaded by Agorists!
Austin Murrey
Most libertarians I've spoken with feel that they'd rather break the governance cycle in government than grow responsibility first because they believe that responsibility and its customs can only form when there are consequences in the real world. And there's something to that. · 0 minutes ago
I agree with that part completely. I don't subscribe to the view that we won't be able to take care of ourselves without government.
Jun '10
Re: Culture War In A String Bikini – Asbury Park to be Invaded by Agorists!
Could be some great advertising opportunities:
Aug '10
Re: Culture War In A String Bikini – Asbury Park to be Invaded by Agorists!
Leftist rabble-rousers, everywhere and always, love to wallow in and glorify the tawdry, as they stick a finger in the eye of the bourgeoisie. In certain neighborhoods in cities such as New York and San Francisco, anti-gentrification activists have fought to maintain the seedy status quo. It's quite sick, really.
Edited on June 27, 2012 at 8:57pmAug '11
Re: Culture War In A String Bikini – Asbury Park to be Invaded by Agorists!
This is the type of politics that needs to stay local. In any case, and I don't mean to be mean, but if all the Libertarians I know showed up in bathing suits, the community standards would ban swimsuits, not because of lewdness, but revulsion.
Nov '11
Re: Culture War In A String Bikini – Asbury Park to be Invaded by Agorists!
Are you [expletive] kidding me? Do people in Asbury Park really have nothing better to worry about?
Nov '11
Re: Culture War In A String Bikini – Asbury Park to be Invaded by Agorists!
Tommy De Seno
Agreed. I see them more as Anarchists, but they insist upon being put under the umbrella of Libertarian. · 4 hours ago
Why does that bother you? Libertarianism includes minarchists and anarchists. It'd a big tent.
I mean, are you really worried about a small subset of a small subset of a small subset of people? Most people don't even know what the word libertarian means.
Edited on June 27, 2012 at 11:22pmAug '10
Re: Culture War In A String Bikini – Asbury Park to be Invaded by Agorists!
Fred Cole
Tommy De Seno
Agreed. I see them more as Anarchists, but they insist upon being put under the umbrella of Libertarian.
Why does that bother you? Libertarianism includes minarchists and anarchists. It'd a big tent.
I mean, are you really worried about a small subset of a small subset of a small subset of people? Most people don't even know what the word libertarian means.
Except this small subset of a small subset of people is a big reason why a lot of people won't understand what "libertarian" means. These sorts of shenanigans are the reason decent people get paranoid fantasies about libertarianism's ultimate goal being orgies on the altar.
Re: Culture War In A String Bikini – Asbury Park to be Invaded by Agorists!
Fred Cole: Are you [expletive] kidding me? Do people in Asbury Park really have nothing better to worry about?
18 minutes ago
That is a problem.
Asbury Park is a tale of two halves. Its founder James Bradley set it up with an East Side/West Side split.
If you go Downtown or to the beach, you'll be in a charming little City by the Sea.
Just don't go to the west side.
Nov '11
Re: Culture War In A String Bikini – Asbury Park to be Invaded by Agorists!
Midget Faded Rattlesnake
Except this small subset of a small subset of people is a big reason why a lot of people won't understand what "libertarian" means. These sorts of shenanigans are the reason decent people get paranoid fantasies about libertarianism's ultimate goal being orgies on the altar. · 0 minutes ago
I mean, if they own the altar and their orgy is peaceful and voluntary...
Agorists are just anarchists who don't believe in voting, they use other peaceful means, education, and yeah, direct action. And if you're an anarchist, there's a serious case to be made for not voting. If you consider the very existence of the state to be a problem, why grant it your sanction at all by voting?
Aug '10
Re: Culture War In A String Bikini – Asbury Park to be Invaded by Agorists!
Fred Cole
I mean, if they own the altar and their orgy is peaceful and voluntary...
Agorists are just anarchists who don't believe in voting...
On the other hand, I can just imagine what a lot of decent folks would make of the following, quoted from agorist.org:
Your average prude is likely to interpret this as, "Agorists believe in going out of their way to do the opposite of what they're told to do in all things, including sexual mores."
Now, going out of your way to do the opposite of what the rules say is quite different from simply wanting to be left alone, or just having a live-and-let-live attitude towards others.
Moreover, it's not entirely clear from agorist.org whether agorists are just opposed to state coercion, or whether they're also opposed to any social conventions whatsoever, but I suspect your average person would assume the latter.
Nov '11
Re: Culture War In A String Bikini – Asbury Park to be Invaded by Agorists!
I prefer this, from the Wikipedia: