Conversations with Cab Drivers: Istanbul Edition
Thanks everyone, for participating in the civility chat. We now return to our regularly scheduled programming.
I had a conversation with a cab driver here last night that I was about to describe as "strange," except that pretty much every conversation I have here is strange. So I suppose it was actually normal.
It began the usual way--he noticed my accent and my general foreignness, and asked me where I was from. I said I was American, he said, "How beautiful!" We talked about California, he asked me which was more lovely, California or Turkey; I said in some ways the climate was quite similar, although you have to distinguish between northern and southern California, they're not the same. All very typical for an Istanbul cab-ride conversation.
He asked me about the economy in America. I said things weren't so great right now. He then surprised me by offering one of the more lucid and accurate analyses of the collapse in the housing market that I've heard anywhere. He got every detail right, as far as I was concerned--Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac, the cross-party distribution of blame, the insanity of offering mortgages to unqualified lenders in order to serve social-engineering goals. It was an analysis that wouldn't have been out of place on the pages of the Wall Street Journal. I was thinking it over when he said, "Obama, what do you think of him? I think he's a Moslem."
"Oh, come on, that's crazy. What makes you say that?"
"His father's a Moslem. He just seems like it."
"No way. He doesn't fast. He's never made the Hajj. He doesn't pray five times a day--"
"Neither do I, and I'm a Moslem."
What could I say? He had me there.
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Comments :
Jul '10
Re: Conversations with Cab Drivers: Istanbul Edition
Now there's a guy we should comp a membership.
And have him run against Barney Frank.
May '10
Re: Conversations with Cab Drivers: Istanbul Edition
Sometimes, I think we benefit as much from simply quoting non-members.
Considering that our government has repeated all of the mistakes that led us into the financial crisis, is there any chance a Republican government (or even just a Republican House) could reverse these policies in time to prevent further carnage?
Aug '10
Re: Conversations with Cab Drivers: Istanbul Edition
Yeah, could you track him down and get him to join? (Not sure how easy it is to track down one cabbie in all of Istanbul, but if anyone can do it, Claire can.)
Jun '10
Re: Conversations with Cab Drivers: Istanbul Edition
Cab drivers get a lot of free newspapers, and they wait a lot.
Jul '10
Re: Conversations with Cab Drivers: Istanbul Edition
Did you discover what it is about Obama that makes that cabbie think he's Muslim?
I second the above comments: track him down, have him join Ricochet.
Re: Conversations with Cab Drivers: Istanbul Edition
Not really, and it's an interesting question. Obviously, he thought this was a point in Obama's favor, one that mitigated what he agreed was a disastrous approach to the economy. I think he just wanted to find something to like in him, despite his intellectual reservations.
Something that struck me, in retrospect, was that I didn't even think to ask the question many here on Ricochet have been asking--"If you're a moderate Moslem, why aren't you on the street protesting against Islamic terrorism?" I didn't ask because the answer was obvious--he would have said, once he got over being insulted, that it was utterly self-evident that everyone's against terrorism, who on earth needs to protest against that?
Everyone in Istanbul remembers the bodies on the streets after al Qaeda finished with this city; people here generally feel about al Qaeda the way New Yorkers do. I suspect the question would have been received much as if I'd said to Midget, "You're a monotheist, why aren't you protesting against Islamic terrorism?"
May '10
Re: Conversations with Cab Drivers: Istanbul Edition
But this illustrates my point in my on-again, off-again debate with Kenneth regarding how to handle the GWOT. If we are to win in the long run, by which I mean civil societies where all are free to worship as they please, rather than run by radical theocracies, we cannot fight the long war with a "more rubble, less trouble" strategy.
You will never persuade Moslims like this cab driver to support your position if you assume up front that everyone out there is 1) promoting Sharia as the legal code for all, and 2) "Sharia" itself is assumed to be a rigid and fixed thing, rather than a mushy and evolved code with a lot of room for interpretation.
Can we get this cab driver to run for Congress from Dearborn?
Aug '10
Re: Conversations with Cab Drivers: Istanbul Edition
Claire Berlinski, Ed.
I suspect the question would have been received much as if I'd said to Midget, "You're a monotheist, why aren't you protesting against Islamic terrorism?"
Eh, who says I ain't?
But I see what you mean.
Edited on Sep 18, 2010 at 12:25pmJul '10
Re: Conversations with Cab Drivers: Istanbul Edition
Claire Berlinski, Ed.
Something that struck me, in retrospect, was that I didn't even think to ask the question many here on Ricochet have been asking--"If you're a moderate Moslem, why aren't you on the street protesting against Islamic terrorism?" I didn't ask because the answer was obvious--he would have said, once he got over being insulted, that it was utterly self-evident that everyone's against terrorism, who on earth needs to protest against that?
· Sep 18 at 11:38am
Fair point. It puts me in mind of a visit I made to the student union. There was a line of marchers chanting "Her body! Her choice!" at me and my friend. My buddy turns to me & says, "Abortion is still legal, right? What are they all worked up about?"
May '10
Re: Conversations with Cab Drivers: Istanbul Edition
Duane Oyen: ...we cannot fight the long war with a "more rubble, less trouble" strategy.
You will never persuade Moslims like this cab driver to support your position...
Duane, ISTM that, in any policy, you want to put in the correct incentives that will motivate the target audience to want to help you achieve your goal. If your target audience admires strength and determination, you give it to them. So you say, "Osama bin Laden killed our people. If you harbor him, you share his guilt. We want him turned over dead or alive or we will level the area where we suspect that he is being allowed to live. Don't test us."
Then, when they do not hand him over, you level the northwest quarter of Pakistan. And then you say, "We were serious. Hand him over dead or alive."
That gives the moderates, and anyone else who values their life, the necessary incentive to help us achieve our goals.
Our error has been that they will negotiate in good faith with a nice guy; we want to be liked. I would settle for hated but feared. We're already hated. Just not feared.
Jun '10
Re: Conversations with Cab Drivers: Istanbul Edition
So my wife and I had a number of friends over last night and at one point about four of us were outside conversing when I brought up your story of the Turkish cab driver. Having made it clear that I was discussing an event that happened involving Claire Berlinski, who I introduced to the group as a known young author of substance who participates on a blog with which I am involved, I then proceeded to tell about the Turk cabbie who was so well versed in the entire complex evolution of the financial crises that he could have written for the WSJ. Then I mentioned how this cabbie thought Obama was a Muslim. One of my friends (a liberal) literally jumped out of her chair and ran off screaming, "I can't believe you think he's a Muslim". We never spoke again the whole night. I finished the story with the remaining friends. The liberal reaction was curious to me. It was like I was calling Obama a child rapist or the devil. Why is it so terrible in the first place that some think him a Muslim? I am beginning to believe liberals to be Islamophobic.
May '10
Re: Conversations with Cab Drivers: Istanbul Edition
Tom Lindholtz
Duane Oyen: ...we cannot fight the long war with a "more rubble, less trouble" strategy.
You will never persuade Moslims like this cab driver to support your position...
Duane, ISTM that, in any policy, you want to put in the correct incentives that will motivate the target audience to want to help you achieve your goal. If your target audience admires strength and determination, you give it to them. So you say, "Osama bin Laden killed our people. If you harbor him, you share his guilt. We want him turned over dead or alive or we will level the area where we suspect that he is being allowed to live. Don't test us."
Then, when they do not hand him over, you level the northwest quarter of Pakistan. And then you say, "We were serious. Hand him over dead or alive."
Tom, if you really think that the American character would tolerate the annihilation of millions of people to make that blackmail point, I have some sunny beach in North Pole, Alaska to sell you really cheap. That idea is tactically viable, but completely immoral.