Conservatism as an Invitation, Not a Rebuke
This post is about sex. There. That got your attention, didn't it.
It may seem like I'm imposing a stream of consciousness on you here, but stay with me. I've been listening to a Great Course on C.S. Lewis, which begins with a presentation of his apologetic argument by desire. It goes something like this...
Because we thirst, it proves the existence of life-sustaining water, of which we are intended to partake. Similarly, because we desire the good, the true, and the beautiful to such an extent that the material world can never satisfy us, it proves the existence of the supernatural world and our intended home in Heaven (capitalized because Lewis believed, as I do, that Heaven is a place). Note: just as one may die of thirst in the desert, there's no guarantee that one will make it to Heaven, only that we are made for it by design.
Further, Lewis returned the favor the post-Enlightenment, post-Marx, post-Freud moderns had done, and turned their philosophical world upside down on them. They had argued, a priori, that a higher order thing (love, for example) was a product of a lower order thing (lust). Lewis argues that the lower order thing (desire) is a shadow of an Incarnate Higher Order Thing (Love).
Which brings us to John Paul II's Theology of the Body, chastity, and sex. Coincident with my Great Course listening, I attended the first of six TOB for Teens class with my soon-to-be fourteen-year-old last night. There, I learned that, in the 126 lectures JPII gave which became the TOB, his teaching emphasized the intended purpose of the body and human sexuality. TOB is an invitation to chastity, which is using one's body exclusively in self-giving authentic love, which we were made to both give and receive. TOB teaches that sex in this light is not only good, but serves our highest calling.
How does this connect to politics? It occurs to me that often, both as a Catholic and a conservative, how I live and my attitude in casual relationships often stand as a rebuke to those who don't share my religion or my politics. I think that's a problem. Instead, I'd like people to feel attracted and invited to both my faith and my politics, because I believe so strongly that they are true.
To that end, I think I have to be less defensive about both, and to engage openly in dialogue without trying to win every argument. The truth (or Truth) always ultimately wins. It doesn't have to be me who wins and it doesn't have to be now.
Do you encounter the same struggles? Do you have any techniques for attraction you've developed?
- Comment (39)
- · Quote
- · UnfollowFollow (3)
- Pages:
- 1
- 2
Comments:
Jan '12
Re: Conservatism as an Invitation, Not a Rebuke
Fair enough, I was thinking of the notion of chastity lauded by the Churchmen of the Middle Ages*. I think however, that still the orthodox, oddly enough, place too much emphasis on how an individual "suffers" an appetite and not enough on its ethical manifestation.
You know, a Jew could take offense at this "best love outside of the triune God" dogma, but we are all good pluralists here, no?
----
*Dante has in instructive image of this: nuns who are raped are confined to the Sphere of the Moon, their vows having been broken, even if they were not willing.
Edited on June 15, 2012 at 7:13pmAug '10
Re: Conservatism as an Invitation, Not a Rebuke
Western Chauvinist
To emphasize your first point Midge, chaste love, definitionally, must be the most delightful and interesting way of being because it is the highest order love.
Oh, of course. But isn't it annoying how much literature these days simply assumes that it is boring? (How many times do you hear the tired old wheeze that married couples' hot sex stopped as soon as they were married?)
If I can play fast and loose with the definition of literature and count movies in the category, one of my least favorite are those "wholesome" romantic comedies where the "good girl" finally sleeps with the guy of her dreams -- without the benefit of marriage. If you've waited that long for your true love, would it kill ya to wait just a little longer? More ribald comedies that don't have delusions of wholesomeness are funnier by comparison.
Chastity is also ordered for the good of the self, especially for women, I think. Chastity is empowering and protective, not just self-sacrificing. The chaste are freer in singlehood, and freer to love with abandon in marriage.
Jun '12
Re: Conservatism as an Invitation, Not a Rebuke
A common thread running through many of these posts suggests that our example of (Christian) conservative living and conversation may be either an invitation or a rebuke to those who stand diametrically opposed to it's message, and that we generally ought to strive for the first while avoiding the latter. Yet whether inviting or repellant, I have found that the perceived aspect of my testimony depends less on my thoughtful presentation than on the authenticity of its message.
I admit this is something I struggle with: an authentic message is one offered after much careful reflection, and I'm not much good at careful reflection. It's simply easier to spout what I've heard that leaves my assumptions comfortably unchallenged. In this, I fear, I am not much different than the leftists I would vilify.
It is not enough for me to speak the truth, even to speak it in love. I must speak the truth as I find it, and more often than not, I find myself challenged and rebuked by it. It is my own vulnerability, a readiness to learn, which is perhaps the best persuasion I can offer to those whom I would correct.
Edited on June 15, 2012 at 9:01pmDec '10
Re: Conservatism as an Invitation, Not a Rebuke
gnarlydad: A common thread running through many of these posts suggests that our example of (Christian) conservative living and conversation may be either an invitation or a rebuke to those who stand diametrically opposed to it's message, and that we generally ought to strive for the first while avoiding the latter. Yet whether inviting or repellant, I have found that the perceived aspect of my testimony depends less on my thoughtful presentation than on the authenticity of its message.
I admit this is something I struggle with: an authentic message is one offered after much careful reflection, and I'm not much good at careful reflection. ...
It is not enough for me to speak the truth, even to speak it in love. I must speak the truth as I find it, and more often than not, I find myself challenged and rebuked by it. It is my own vulnerability, a readiness to learn, which is perhaps the best persuasion I can offer to those whom I would correct.
You made your point most eloquently with this comment, gnarlydad. I can't Like it enough!
Dec '10
Re: Conservatism as an Invitation, Not a Rebuke
I've observed that liberals have trouble with humility, which I've heard described as the virtue of being teachable. Again, I think this stems from their intoxication with their virtue, which impairs their ability, or even their desire, to recognize the truth.
This is why I have so much trouble acknowledging liberal good intentions. I feel like I'm serving whiskey to an alcoholic.
Dec '10
Re: Conservatism as an Invitation, Not a Rebuke
Noesis Noeseos
...
You know, a Jew could take offense at this "best love outside of the triune God" dogma, but we are all good pluralists here, no?
The Trinity is important to this line of reasoning because of the complete sharing of essence (will) between Father and Son, the procreative love which produces the holy Spirit.
Jews aren't the only ones who would disagree with the theological aspects of this discussion, you're right. However, I kind of doubt conservative Jews (or others) are the types to force us to walk on eggshells. If they are, they're on the wrong website!
Jan '12
Re: Conservatism as an Invitation, Not a Rebuke
Western Chauvinist
Noesis Noeseos
...
You know, a Jew could take offense at this "best love outside of the triune God" dogma, but we are all good pluralists here, no?
The Trinity is important to this line of reasoning because of the complete sharing of essence (will) between Father and Son, the procreative love which produces the holy Spirit.
Jews aren't the only ones who would disagree with the theological aspects of this discussion, you're right. However, I kind of doubt conservativeJews (or others) are the types to force us to walk on eggshells. If they are, they're on the wrong website! · 17 minutes ago
My dear fellow, if you are so ready to resort to the rhetoric of force, you would profit by asking whether you yourself have cracked your shells on the right website.
I found nothing about pluralism in your response. Moreover, it is amusing to read where a fideist places his doubts.
And, oh, how I yearn for the day when an interlocutor realizes that his bare assertion does not a valid argument make.
Note: take a hint from Pseudodionysius, a friend; he aims to persuade others that Christian dogma conforms with reason.
Edited on June 15, 2012 at 11:10pmJan '12
Re: Conservatism as an Invitation, Not a Rebuke
You know, TR, someday (assuming I don't succumb first) I am going to trek out to Utah and visit you. I am going to pour you a glass of lemonade and me a Moylans super IPAX. We are going to talk about Orson Scott Card and the virtues of adhering to a long-abiding community. And I promise not to act like that little boy who pissed on Ender's lap.
Travel well, amigo.
tabula rasa: Yes, I do have the kind of feelings you describe. As a Mormon, I don't drink alcohol, coffee, or tea, and I don't smoke. I often fear that others not of my faith take this as some sort of implicit rebuke when they have a cup of coffee or a drink in my presence.
.
Apr '11
Re: Conservatism as an Invitation, Not a Rebuke
Western Chauvinist:
Because we thirst, it proves the existence of life-sustaining water, of which we are intended to partake. Similarly, because we desire the good, the true, and the beautiful to such an extent that the material world can never satisfy us, it proves the existence of the supernatural world and our intended home in Heaven (capitalized because Lewis believed, as I do, that Heaven is a place). Note: just as one may die of thirst in the desert, there's no guarantee that one will make it to Heaven, only that we are made for it by design.
I was always partial to the argument that since thorns have roses, it shows that God loves us. Else the rose has no purpose.
Apr '11
Re: Conservatism as an Invitation, Not a Rebuke
I'm glad you said it - it saved me the trouble. Although I don't completely agree with your definition of chastity, it certainly does not equal abstinence.
And I probably would have chid Noesis further by asking for the difference between complete abstinence and abstinence.
Because I'm a bad person.
Apr '11
Re: Conservatism as an Invitation, Not a Rebuke
I was visiting a guy in St. George ~30 years ago. He wasn't home, but his folks invited me in to wait for his return and asked if I'd like to have something to drink. I knew Mormons don't "do" alcohol or caffeine, but unthinkingly asked if they had iced tea. His dad kinda chuckled and said 'no, Mormons don't drink tea,' and I said water w/ice would be fine. (I like beer, but I drink a lot of water, and enjoy it just about as much.)
I did not feel rebuked, but I was kind of embarrassed at my gaffe.
But then, when Kev got home and the folks went off to bed, he told me they kept a few Pepsi's around for the unbelievers, and I was relieved he wasn't offended.
Apr '11
Re: Conservatism as an Invitation, Not a Rebuke
Midget Faded Rattlesnake
If I can play fast and loose with the definition of literature and count movies in the category, one of my least favorite are those "wholesome" romantic comedies where the "good girl" finally sleeps with the guy of her dreams -- without the benefit of marriage. If you've waited that long for your true love, would it kill ya to wait just a little longer? More ribald comedies that don't have delusions of wholesomeness are funnier by comparison.
I don't know if you've read The Making of A Moron, but there's a line in there about the author preferring outright obscenity to sniggering lewdity (I'm butchering it, but I think that's the thought roughly). I'm inclined to that camp.
Aug '10
Re: Conservatism as an Invitation, Not a Rebuke
Glenn the Iconoclast
Midget Faded Rattlesnake
[O]ne of my least favorite are those "wholesome" romantic comedies where the "good girl" finally sleeps with the guy of her dreams -- without the benefit of marriage. If you've waited that long for your true love, would it kill ya to wait just a little longer? More ribald comedies that don't have delusions of wholesomeness are funnier by comparison.
I don't know if you've read The Making of A Moron, but there's a line in there about the author preferring outright obscenity to sniggering lewdity (I'm butchering it, but I think that's the thought roughly). I'm inclined to that camp.
It arrived yesterday, and it's joined my stack. Been feeling somewhat fuzzy-headed lately, so I may not start reading today -- I like to have a clear head for reading important things :-)
I'm still Miss Priss enough that flagrant obscenity usually just shocks me. Moreover, it's hard to beat the comedic power of superbly executed innuendo. But I much prefer a twisted, cynical sense of humor to one pretending to be wholesome and... failing.
Underachieving at wholesomeness does not equal mocking obscenity.
Edited on June 16, 2012 at 7:20pmDec '10
Re: Conservatism as an Invitation, Not a Rebuke
Glenn the Iconoclast
I'm glad you said it - it saved me the trouble. Although I don't completely agree with your definition of chastity, it certainly does not equal abstinence.
And I probably would have chid Noesis further by asking for the difference between complete abstinence and abstinence.
Because I'm a bad person.
You're welcome. But, if you're a bad person, what does it make me for letting No No think he was interlocuting with a dear fellow? And my not mentioning I was complimenting the robustness of conservative reasoning by not pandering to the multiculti thin-skinnedness so prevalent among liberals. Or that I've long been an admirer of Pseudo, although I might dispute his power of persuasion so much as his erudition, which baffles his opponents into submission. We're all sinners.
Dec '10
Re: Conservatism as an Invitation, Not a Rebuke
Glenn the Iconoclast
Western Chauvinist:
Because we thirst, it proves the existence of life-sustaining water, of which we are intended to partake. Similarly, because we desire the good, the true, and the beautiful to such an extent that the material world can never satisfy us, it proves the existence of the supernatural world and our intended home in Heaven (capitalized because Lewis believed, as I do, that Heaven is a place). Note: just as one may die of thirst in the desert, there's no guarantee that one will make it to Heaven, only that we are made for it by design.
I was always partial to the argument that since thorns have roses, it shows that God loves us. Else the rose has no purpose.
Suffering makes us better people, it's true.
Aug '10
Re: Conservatism as an Invitation, Not a Rebuke
Western Chauvinist
But, if you're a bad person, what does it make me for letting No No think he was interlocuting with a dearfellow?
In all fairness, maybe the avatar confused him. I mean, why would your avatar be a beautiful, patriotic woman unless you were a man? ;-)
Western Chauvinist
Suffering makes us better people, it's true.
The pain resulting from our mistakes is nature's primal teacher, yes. And learning to bear suffering with nobility and grace makes us better people. But is it the suffering itself, or the lessons we might (but not inevitably) learn from it that makes us better people?
Suffering also prompts some people to become despairing, short-tempered, and nasty. Moreover, if suffering itself causes virtue, there should be no Christian duty to alleviate others' suffering, and there clearly is.
All the givens of life, suffering included, can be means of grace. But is the grace, not the suffering itself, that makes us better people.
Apr '11
Re: Conservatism as an Invitation, Not a Rebuke
Midget Faded Rattlesnak
I'm still Miss Priss enough that flagrant obscenity usually just shocks me. Moreover, it's hard to beat the comedic power of superbly executed innuendo. But I much prefer a twisted, cynical sense of humor to one pretending to be wholesome and... failing.
Underachieving at wholesomeness does not equal mocking obscenity.
I undoubtedly explained myself poorly as usual.
But insofar as it is possible to have a legitimate preference, I dislike cloaked lewdity. I rather like innuendo, but I don't see it being practiced much.
FWIW, I like having as many Miss Priss's as possible around. :-) Helps keep me honest.
Apr '11
Re: Conservatism as an Invitation, Not a Rebuke
Western Chauvinist
Glenn the Iconoclast
Western Chauvinist:
Because we thirst, it proves the existence of life-sustaining water, of which we are intended to partake. Similarly, because we desire the good, the true, and the beautiful to such an extent that the material world can never satisfy us, it proves the existence of the supernatural world and our intended home in Heaven (capitalized because Lewis believed, as I do, that Heaven is a place). Note: just as one may die of thirst in the desert, there's no guarantee that one will make it to Heaven, only that we are made for it by design.
I was always partial to the argument that since thorns have roses, it shows that God loves us. Else the rose has no purpose.
Suffering makes us better people, it's true.
That's completely not what I'm saying. (nice voice)
Jan '12
Re: Conservatism as an Invitation, Not a Rebuke
Silly to chime in so late--my son came to visit, and family takes precedence over "pastime with good company"--but an ironic retort carries the same import whether directed against man or woman.
At the risk of inviting further anathematization, let me say that I am resolved to let pass dogmatic statements when they are directed at none in particular but are part of the general flow of the conversation. Direct your prejudice at me, however, and I shall decidedly respond.
Calmly offered references to the writings of studied apologists I shall always receive more kindly than the self-certain expostulations of enthusiasts, male or female.
If this postscript should earn me official rebuke, my credit card account is always happy to receive remittances.
Edited on June 18, 2012 at 6:35am