Trace · December 21, 2012 at 8:08pm
images-1

I liked Bohner's compromise proposal taxing millionaires.

Yes, I know it was unfair and counterproductive, but it had the potential to win the PR battle with the President. Once the Senate refused to consider it, or the president refused to sign it, it might actually sink in to some exactly how hysterical is the Democrat's position on taxes. It had the air of compromise while drastically limiting the scope of the damage. And it had the potential to weaken the President's hand.

Instead the younger, more conservative members rejected the plan and now we are nowhere.

The tax hikes will be successfully blamed on Republicans too concerned with protecting their rich donors and now it can be said they are so corrupt as to not even raise taxes on the minute number of Americans making more than $1 million. Meanwhile we careen over the cliff and very likely trigger a double-dip recession -- which again will be blamed on Republican recalcitrance.

Americans will be furious and the battle lines will be exactly the same as they are now, except that more Americans will be paying attention. The President will go on television every day begging the Republicans to stop protecting their rich friends.

It strikes me that Boehner had a very good sense of the politics of the moment, but he no longer speaks for his caucus and after this latest debacle could well be out of a job.

Comments:


Mr. Bildo
Joined
May '11
Mr. Bildo

It strikes me that Boehner had a very good sense of the politics of the moment, but he no longer speaks for his caucus and after this latest debacle could well be out of a job.

For the sake of the country and the GOP, I hope that's the case.

BrentB67
Joined
May '12
BrentB67

Irrespective of the outcome the republicans were going to be blamed. Even if Obama proposed $1.6Trillion in tax hikes over 10 years and the republicans unanimously passed it by the time the bill made it to the President's desk it would be republican's fault that it wasn't $1.7Trillion.

I would personally rather see all the tax rates increase and taxmageddon be unleashed on all the country. When all of us (that actually pay income taxes) get smacked with higher rates and we begin to scratch the surface of paying for the welfare state maybe then more of us will start paying attention. 

Dividing the country according to tax brackets plays into the progressive's hands. Let the 'fiscal cliff' occur. Things aren't bad enough for real reform, wait until they are that bad and rejoin the fight. Don't raise the debt ceiling and then let Obama squirm.

No matter what R's do it is wrong and bad so might as well make a statement.

Leigh
Joined
Nov '11
Leigh

I agree and really don't get the opposition.  The simple fact is that in real life anything else will be worse than Plan B.  That's what happened during the debt-ceiling crisis (which I think might have been the turning point for Obama, because the optics for conservative Republicans were so bad) -- conservatives rebelled against the most realistic option which would have put them in the best spot politically, and we got sequestration.

In other areas, conservatives operate on this principle.  If it's about abortion, pro-lifers vote for the bill on the table that will save the most lives, regardless of whether they like its language.  And so forth. Why are taxes and spending different?  If the only alternative is worse for the country, vote for the bill!  The legislative version of the Buckley rule: vote for the most conservative option really on the table.  Yelling "stop" does no good when you throw away your chance to access the brakes.

That doesn't let Boehner off the hook; he's not convincing his caucus that his leadership is consistent with their principles.  Whether a new Speaker will improve matters, I have no idea. 

Edited on December 21, 2012 at 6:59am
Mendel
Joined
Mar '11
Mendel

I would find the conservatives in the House laudable and less odious if they actually put their conditions on the table and at least engaged in some type of discourse.

Even if they can never get anything close to what they would want, by at least making a serious proposal the conservative caucus would demonstrate an eagerness to solve the problem and a set of principles they stand by.  But now they just look like the obstructionists they are labelled to be with no constructive ideas of their own.

The King Prawn
Joined
Dec '10
The King Prawn

Could he not get some dems to go along with the plan thus covering for those who rebelled and putting pressure on the Senate and the president because it was a bipartisan bill?

Trace
Joined
May '10
Trace

But @BrentB67 this "lesson" comes at too great a cost. The principal of it could be lost while the cost of it in economic hardship will be quite real. While I understand the impulse to "teach everyone a lesson," I'm afraid in this case it is both unwise and unkind and NOT in keeping with the purpose of public office.

Vice-Potentate
Joined
Jul '11
Vice-Potentate

Elongating tax cuts without triggering spending cuts seems counter-productive in the long run. It seems everyone has conveniently forgotten about the deficit.


Joined
Apr '12
Mark

This is a disaster for the R's.  The D's are now to their right on tax cuts as the R's have positioned themselves as willing to have everyone's taxes go up.  A juvenile tantrum by Plan B opponents is not a strategy.

I'm unhappy with the election results but the reality is that the White House and Senate are D and some crappy compromise I won't like is inevitable.


Joined
Nov '12
Thom Williams

The stupidity behind leaving Boehner dangling is difficult to measure. The democrats will now come back in January and pass a tax cut for everyone making less than $250,000. So, now the GOP will not only get painted - once again - as the party that only cares about the rich, everyone else be damned, because they would rather raise taxes on everyone than just raise taxes on millionaires; the GOP has now allowed the democrats to take credit for the tax cut they will pass upon their return. The GOP gets nothing out of this but more ignominy. The dems get everything they could have possibly hoped for and more.

Thank you Tea Party [redacted for Code of Conduct].

Edited on December 21, 2012 at 8:57pm
BrentB67
Joined
May '12
BrentB67

If we want to spend $3Trillion + per year why shouldn't we pay for it?

Trace
Joined
May '10
Trace

@BrentB67 If higher rates precipitate a recession, there is no guarantee that revenues will increase, and pressure for additional spending will surely increase. It's a spiteful, unproductive gesture.


Joined
Nov '12
Thom Williams
BrentB67: If we want to spend $3Trillion + per year why shouldn't we pay for it? · 7 minutes ago

So, we've gone from starve the beast to feed the beast. What makes me think this brilliant strategy will work even less well than the former.

Roberto
Joined
Mar '11
Roberto
Mendel: I would find the conservatives in the House laudable and less odious if they actually put their conditions on the table and at least engaged in some type of discourse.

Uh, what???

H.R.2560
Latest Title: Cut, Cap, and Balance Act of 2011

H.R.6169
Latest Title: Pathway to Job Creation through a Simpler, Fairer Tax Code Act of 2012

H.CON.RES.112
Latest Title: Establishing the budget for the United States Government for fiscal year 2013 and setting forth appropriate budgetary levels for fiscal years 2014 through 2022.

Reid Laughs at Prospect of Bringing GOP Bills Up for Votes in Senate

In total, there are 40 House-passed bills, according to House Majority Leader Eric Cantor’s (R-Va.) office, that have passed the House but languish in the Senate.

Edited on December 21, 2012 at 5:26pm
Trace
Joined
May '10
Trace

But Roberto these are measures that have no hope of passing. So again, the purists are allowing the perfect to be the enemy of the good. They will never achieve perfect and so will permit something worse in what I believe is a misguided idea that Americans will see the error of their ways and come back to supporting one of these pure measures. They had an opportunity to vote that way in November and declined. So all that this accomplishes is to confirm their November suspicions that Republicans are extremist.

Erik Larsen
Joined
Jan '11
Erik Larsen

Lots of flaming on the Ace of Spades HQ website - many are quite happy that the purists didn't want to vote to raise taxes on a small percentage of people, and are perfectly happy to have everybody else's taxes go up.  Ideological purity trumps "compromising values".  I get it a bit, but really, I just don't get it.  We truly are the party of stupid.  Sigh.

BlueAnt
Joined
Aug '10
BlueAnt

You have some extraneous bits in your title.  Take out the word "perfect", and that apostrophe, and it will read correctly.

Other than that...

There is no public relations battle for Boehner to win.  Obama already positioned himself as the moderate guy who is willing to compromise; the GOP will get zero credit.  I know Rob Long hates for us to keep complaining about media bias, but it's relevant when dealing solely with the issue of perception and "optics".

In that light, I say Boehner's best bet is to do the job of a Congressman--pass principled, reasonable legislation--and let the rest of the government scramble and fail.  I am fine with Republicans being branded the "enemy of the good" because we have that label anyway.  

You can not ditch the "extremist" label by enabling Obama's preset narrative that any compromise is the result of his defeating partisan extremists.  Obama is a de facto extremist.  Let him scramble in the face of the fiscal cliff until he is willing to compromise.

(I have another post in the works arguing that any tax raise is unconscionable, but it's not fully written yet.)


Joined
Dec '11
Guruforhire

I am convinced.  The republican party is dead.  It serves no earthly purpose.  Its time to sell off the assets and stop wasting everybody's time.

Fricosis Guy
Joined
Jun '11
Fricosis Guy

On hobbyhorse -- The Bush tax cuts were temporary tax cuts that contained the tax hikes we're fighting over now. The sooner the GOP jumps off the Keynesian treadmill (even if it means the so-called cliff) the better. -- Off hobbyhorse.

Shane McGuire
Joined
Feb '12
Shane McGuire

Couldn't disagree more. We've watched Boehner have multiple showdowns with Obama. He's 0-for the last two years. Plus, Obama is 100 times the politician Boehner is, and there is no way Boehner was going to win the politics of the fight.

But politics aside, the proposal was a bad one. Raise taxes on people making over a million dollars a year---that's wonderful PR, you're now anti-millionaire--but now what? Spending is still out of control and the president won't budge on entitlements.

And if the argument from Boehner is, "we're protecting 99.81% of taxpayers," then we're just talking about degree. Isn't protecting 95% of taxpayers good? 75%? 60%?

He also gives up the argument on what produces more revenue. Would raising taxes on people making over 1 million a year raise more revenue than would keeping rates the same or cutting them? There's a point at which cutting taxes lowers revenue, but there's a point at which raising taxes lowers revenue too. Where is that point?

More importantly, why are Republicans in the business of raising revenue to the government?

Nanda Panjandrum
Joined
Nov '11
Nanda Panjandrum

Thank you, Trace...Isn't politics the "art of the possible"?


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