Civil Rights, Gay Rights, and a New Phase in the Culture War
In the May edition of First Things, R. R. Reno presents an editorial that strikes me as entirely correct--and thoroughly ominous. Excerpts:
Last summer, New York's mayor Michael Bloomberg gave a speech in advance of the close vote in the New York state legislature that decided that men have a right to marry men and women women. He described the fight for same-sex marriage as "the great civil-rights issue of our times...."
[But the]...belief that homosexual acts are immoral is not the same kind of claim as the belief that black people are inferior because they are black. When we deem homosexual acts immoral, we are not stigmatizing a class of persons; we're exercising our moral reason about the rightness and wrongness of actions. Unlike racism, principled opposition to homosexual rights has a firm basis. It's normal to judge behavior, including...sexual behavior. That's why describing homosexual acts as immoral is not at all like calling black men and women inferior.
To merge sexual liberation into the civil-rights movement dramatically raises the stakes in public debate. The Selma analogy [that is, comparing the gay rights movement with the civil rights marches from Selma to Montgomery, Alabama] makes traditional views of sexual morality as noxious as racism, and in so doing encourages progressives to adopt something like a total-war doctrine. The implication is that people who hold such views should have no voice in American society and that homosexuality should be aggressively affirmed in our public and private institutions, while dissent is punished.
Chai Feldblum [pictured here] is an Obama appointee to the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission....She sees the future this way: "Positive changes in the moral values of our country--such as moral values that honor the love between two people, regardless of their gender--will inherently and necessarily pose a challenge to those who believe, for religious or other reasons, that such love is sinful...." [W]hen asked her opinion on the conflict between homosexual rights and the moral commitments of religious institutions she insisted that "in almost all cases sexual liberty should win, because that's the only way that the dignity of gay people can be affirmed in any realistic manner." It's a frank statement that clarifies how few restraints progressives feel once they are convinced that they are fighting for "the great civil-rights issue of our times...."
I fear that we are entering into a new phase of the culture war...The Selma analogy gives [progressives]...a rationale for deploying the vast coercive power of the civil-rights apparatus to serve their moral vision of sexual liberation. It's a prospect that will give an even more literal meaning to the dictatorship of relativism.
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Apr '11
Re: Civil Rights, Gay Rights, and a New Phase in the Culture War
Liberty Dude: I've never understood the biologic argument for homosexuality. How would such a gene propagate itself?
If there's a genetic basis for alcoholism, does that mean the state should take steps to encourage an alcoholic's habit?
Just asking. · 4 minutes ago
Edited 1 minute
First of all it is not very clear to what extent genetics plays in determining homosexuality. It probably plays some part, but to what extent is impossible to pin down. The big thing to know is that there is no such thing as a gay "gene", any more than there is a smart gene, white gene, religious gene, or any such thing. Human sexuality is highly complicated trait, with lots of genes and environmental factors involved in shaping it.
Again alcoholism is clearly self destructive substance abuse, which is why we work hard to make sure people with this problem get treatment. Homosexuality is not the same thing at all. You can turn sex in to a problem for yourself but I don't think that is limited to just gay sex.
Mar '12
Re: Civil Rights, Gay Rights, and a New Phase in the Culture War
Statistically speaking, there are not that many homosexuals in America. From that perspective, gay marriage is not a major issue--unless it helps to weaken the institution more.
How about a trade-off. Legalize marriage for any two adults who are not close relatives and who are not already married. And, step two, make adultery actionable again. Some advocates of gay marriage have suggested that sexual exclusivity won't be the same as it is for heterosexual couples. I might be willing to negotiate who may be parties to the marriage, but not the idea that the couple is exclusive.
Apr '11
Re: Civil Rights, Gay Rights, and a New Phase in the Culture War
Gaby Charing: Many of you, people of faith, believe that homosexual acts are wrong. Why should that belief of yours determine what my rights are? I don't share your faith and I reject the idea homosexuality is abnormal and homosexual acts wrong. As I have said before on Ricochet, my sexual orientation is normal and natural for me and millions of other gay people. I defend your right to live your lives as you wish; please allow me to do the same. But I can't live my life as I wish unless I have legal recognition of my relationship, as you do.
Equality before the law is a basic human right and the fight for that equality is indeed a fight for civil rights. ·
In what sense can't you live your life as you wish without legal ratification of your marriage?
Marriage aside, it was my recollection that you were partly with Peter on this. Legislation preventing discrimination by private individuals isn't an area where "you do your thing and I do mine" applies. The whole "your right to swing your fist ends at my nose" line of thinking creates an inevitable bilateral tension.
Apr '12
Re: Civil Rights, Gay Rights, and a New Phase in the Culture War
Valiuth,
I agree that homosexual acts are not destructive by themselves. However, I think the modern social concept of it is destructive. Convince young folks that they have been predetermined to be gay/straight is highly deleterious. If you look at the development of fetishes they take time to develop, much like drug habits, or any other habit for that matter. It's a culmination of many choices over time.
Simply telling someone that they are predetermined to follow a certain path would make someone who has urges at one point in time resign themselves to a certain fate, which they may not have chosen had they known they could exercise self control.
Edited on April 18, 2012 at 1:01amSep '11
Re: Civil Rights, Gay Rights, and a New Phase in the Culture War
Aaron Miller:
We will not be forced to normalize gay sex and gay unions. · 11 minutes ago
"We" will not be forced. Who is this "we"? You speak as if you own the whole USA.
May '10
Re: Civil Rights, Gay Rights, and a New Phase in the Culture War
It's important to note that homosexual desires can be strongly encouraged by a genetic predisposition but are not insurmountable or even immutable.
This is similar to other psychological disorders, like depression. A person can be born with a strong genetic inclination to pessimistic and self-abusive thoughts. Some people cannot entirely eliminate such thoughts even with counseling and medication. But most depressed people can moderate their condition — sometimes with great success — through development of psychological habits and/or chemical supplements.
Ex-gays exist. Human beings are not defined by our genes alone. We are defined first and foremost by our choices. We each inherit certain struggles, but some must struggle more than others.
I have Asperger's Syndrome and depression. I have relatives with conditions from bipolar disorder to schizophrenia. While I don't know what it's like to struggle with homosexuality, I certainly understand what it's like to acknowledge my own rare and natural desires as disordered and to resist them, both for myself and for others.
Jun '10
Re: Civil Rights, Gay Rights, and a New Phase in the Culture War
Marriage is more (or should be) than just two people having the same private hobby. Real marriage is the foundation of human civilization, and that's why people (most people) care about it.
May '10
Re: Civil Rights, Gay Rights, and a New Phase in the Culture War
Gaby Charing
Aaron Miller:
We will not be forced to normalize gay sex and gay unions.
"We" will not be forced. Who is this "we"? You speak as if you own the whole USA.
The majority of Americans — the voters who rejected state referendums across the country (even in California!) which proposed applying the term "marriage" to gay unions.
Mar '11
Re: Civil Rights, Gay Rights, and a New Phase in the Culture War
Valiuth
You either have to accept that gay people will have gay sex and that both are right and normal, or have to say both people and action are wrong. · 1 hour ago
The difference is that immoral conduct is fine... to a point... in one's own home. If two guys want to do immoral things to each other, have at it. They can say it isn't really immoral, and I can say that it is, and no harm, no foul. It's quite different when those guys then demand the right to change social institutions in place since civilization itself, and further, demand that I endorse it or be labeled as the immoral, abnormal one. I don't give a damn what you do in your own home. Don't tell me I have to endorse it or give it moral value though.
Apr '11
Re: Civil Rights, Gay Rights, and a New Phase in the Culture War
Gaby Charing
Aaron Miller:
We will not be forced to normalize gay sex and gay unions. · 11 minutes ago
"We" will not be forced. Who is this "we"? You speak as if you own the whole USA. · 8 minutes ago
Aaron is not every American, and does not own even a significant portion of the country (assuming he's not a billionaire's pseudonym), but, as the first person plural suggests, he is one of them. If Americans are not forced through discrimination law to do something, Aaron can gramatically make his claim without an obvious problem.
If your point is that many Americans already face these kinds of discrimination laws at a state level (and, indeed, to a lesser extent, at a federal level), then I'd agree that Aaron's statement is overbroad. I don't see how it implies ownership of anything but his own identity, though.
Apr '11
Re: Civil Rights, Gay Rights, and a New Phase in the Culture War
Aaron Miller
Gaby Charing
Aaron Miller:
We will not be forced to normalize gay sex and gay unions.
"We" will not be forced. Who is this "we"? You speak as if you own the whole USA.
The majority of Americans — the voters who rejected state referendums across the country (even in California!) which proposed applying the term "marriage" to gay unions. · 6 minutes ago
Aaron, Will you be content with the will of the people if we decide democratically to recognize gay unions as marriage?
Mar '12
Re: Civil Rights, Gay Rights, and a New Phase in the Culture War
African Americans are more likely to say homosexuality is something to be discouraged (46%) compared to the rest of the population (40%) as of 2009. http://www.pewforum.org/A-Religious-Portrait-of-African-Americans.aspx Also, African Americans lean Democrat (76%) more than Republican (10%).
It seems odd to me that a strongly Democrat-leaning population that was the direct beneficiary of the civil rights movement is not on board with this self-proclaimed "great civil-rights issue or our times."
Apr '12
Re: Civil Rights, Gay Rights, and a New Phase in the Culture War
Further, using "marriage" to describe a homosexual relationship of any intimacy is a stolen concept, for the simple reason that homosexual unions cannot create children or families.
Lady Betrum & etoiledunord,
Majority rule cannot create/destroy individual rights. If it's determined homosexuals have these rights, then they always had them; they were just not recognized.
Apr '11
Re: Civil Rights, Gay Rights, and a New Phase in the Culture War
Ameriherron: African Americans are more likely to say homosexuality is something to be discouraged (46%) compared to the rest of the population (40%) as of 2009. http://www.pewforum.org/A-Religious-Portrait-of-African-Americans.aspx Also, African Americans lean Democrat (76%) more than Republican (10%).
It seems odd to me that a strongly Democrat-leaning population that was the direct beneficiary of the civil rights movement is not on board with this self-proclaimed "great civil-rights issue or our times." · 1 minute ago
I think that we should be careful to avoid the liberal form of ad hominem whereby we suggest that people of a particular race/ gender/ sexuality ought to have particular political views.
Sep '10
Re: Civil Rights, Gay Rights, and a New Phase in the Culture War
The state of North Carolina has an amendment on the ballot that I half agree with and half vehemently disagree with. It says that marriage is between a man and a woman. Fine, to my mind. But then it goes on to say that marriage "is the only domestic legal union that shall be valid or recognized in this State." (I'm not sure, but I don't think NC has common law marriage.) This goes way too far. It's not simply the Left that's engaged in the culture wars. I'm a citizen. And in the public realm, that's all that should matter.
Nov '11
Re: Civil Rights, Gay Rights, and a New Phase in the Culture War
etoiledunord
We live in a democracy. If the US Constitution hasn't given any special protection to homosexuals, as they have to racial or religious minorities, then your "rights" (as a homosexual) are whatever 51% of the legislature is prepared to give you. That's how our democracy works.
Well, a few things
1. We live in a republic, not a democracy.
2. That's a good thing because that means our system protects individual rights and that the 51% can't enslave the 49%.
May '10
Re: Civil Rights, Gay Rights, and a New Phase in the Culture War
Valiuth
Why would you call homosexuality a disorder? Depression leads people into clearly harmful behavior and thoughts. They become unable to function in normal society, and even commit suicide. I know several gay people and their sexuality seems to have no discernible effect on their ability to function. This is the major reason homosexuality was removed as a medical condition.
Or perhaps it was because associations of pscyhiatric and psychological professionals are no more immune to political activism than are the American Medical Association or countless scientific organizations which have jumped on the global warming bandwagon.
Statistically, gays have much higher incidence rates of STDs and other sex-related problems than heterosexuals. They have lower life expectancy. They have higher rates of depression and other psychological ailments, even in gay-friendly communities like San Francisco. And, for reasons unknown to me, a far greater percentage of homosexuals than heterosexuals practice pedophilia.
Any person should be free to live a self-destructive lifestyle. But others should be free to openly disapprove.
Apr '11
Re: Civil Rights, Gay Rights, and a New Phase in the Culture War
Liberty Dude:
Lady Betrum & etoiledunord,
Majority rule cannot create/destroy individual rights. If it's determined homosexuals have these rights, then they always had them; they were just not recognized. · 0 minutes ago
It can't create natural rights, but it can create statutory and Constitutional rights. The Nineteenth Amendment created an individual right to vote for women, but it did so only prospectively; no claim was made that women had this right under George III, or, at least, no claim was made that this was demonstrated by the passage of the amendment.
Statutory and state constitutional decisions have certainly had a degree of influence in normalizing gay sex and gay unions, as Aaron puts it; I suspect that, descriptively, he's wrong about this, and that further legal forcing will take place. I don't think that the legal impact is nearly as great as the cultural impact, though. Ellen Degeneres and Anise Parker have done far more for gay acceptance through good works than the Goodridges did through their brief marriage.
Jun '10
Re: Civil Rights, Gay Rights, and a New Phase in the Culture War
It just prevents the predictable legal mischief of going around the law by changing the name of the same-sex union from marriage to something else. If they receive all the legal benefits and the privileges of the institution, they're not going to care what it's called.
Nov '11
Re: Civil Rights, Gay Rights, and a New Phase in the Culture War
If producing children were the only basis for marriage then we'd administer fertility tests when marriage license applications, it would be limited to people of child bearing age and any marriages that didn't produce children would be declared invalid.
Edited on April 18, 2012 at 1:10am