Or so says the great Anthony Sacramone, in his analysis of the latest news that is supposed to shake the very foundations of Christianity.
Usually this mainstream media tradition of releasing such stories happens at Christmas or Easter. You know the drill: scientists/archeologists/hucksters have discovered Jesus walked on an ice floe, not water/Jesus didn't die so much as pass out after being doped up/Jesus' father was actually a Roman soldier named Pantera.
We all have our favorite. Mine? That time that National Geographic released an unrelenting public relations offensive based around something later shown to be a mistranslation of a 3rd century text about Judas. But for weeks we were told that Judas was more a hero than villain of the Christian story.
Anywho, we were treated to front-page headlines yesterday in the New York Times about Jesus’ wife (“A Faded Piece of Papyrus Refers to Jesus’ Wife“), based on a very tiny fragment of what one scholar says is a 4th-century writing about Jesus Christ. If there’s one thing we all know, it’s that mysterious stories about 4th-century Coptic fragments of questionable provenance are probably more authoritative (in the media’s eyes) about Jesus’ life than the extensive writings of his contemporaries.
After the juicy headlines some reporters even got around to admitting the find wasn't as significant as the headlines claimed.
So what's the point of the story? I'll let the New York Times explain:
Even with many questions unsettled, the discovery could reignite the debate over whether Jesus was married, whether Mary Magdalene was his wife and whether he had a female disciple. These debates date to the early centuries of Christianity, scholars say. But they are relevant today, when global Christianity is roiling over the place of women in ministry and the boundaries of marriage.
The discussion is particularly animated in the Roman Catholic Church, where despite calls for change, the Vatican has reiterated the teaching that the priesthood cannot be opened to women and married men because of the model set by Jesus.
The discovery of this lost fragment, if interpreted in just the right way, matches the views of the New York Times editorial page! It’s an early Christmas miracle!
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Comments:
Nov '10
Re: Christians—Keep Your Heads! Eructations, Bronx Cheers, Face Palms, and Eye Rolling Have No Place in the Body of Christ!
Devereaux: Of course Jesus had a wife - it is theChurch, as is clearly spoken to in Revelation at the minimum. By the 4th century that would have been a well-established fact.
On the gospels, it is my understanding that remnants of the beginning of John have been discovered and dated to just pre-temple destruction. Since all agree John was the last written, it makes all the rest of the gospels that much earlier. Certainly no one would dispute that contemporaries still existed 30 years after His death. Remember that by-and-large his disciples were young men. · 1 hour ago
Close. The church is the "bride" of Christ until His 2nd coming when she becomes "the bride, the Lamb's wife" - At the marriage supper of Lamb specifically. Rev. 19:9 All prospective until then.
Nov '11
Re: Christians—Keep Your Heads! Eructations, Bronx Cheers, Face Palms, and Eye Rolling Have No Place in the Body of Christ!
I first heard of it when James Lileks mentioned it on the Ricochet podcast and I looked it up.
Of all the stupid things...
I'm not a believer. But of all the rationalizations...
Look, if all you want to do is doubt the story of the resurrection, you don't need to try that hard to rationalize the resurrection story.
Sep '10
Re: Christians—Keep Your Heads! Eructations, Bronx Cheers, Face Palms, and Eye Rolling Have No Place in the Body of Christ!
Upend it? Really?
Since by the very dogmatic definitions of your own faith, a human wife of Christ is a logical and metaphysical impossibility, you clearly have some more reading to do.
Feel free to re-read The First Seven Ecumenical Councils by Leo Donaldson Davis or a basic text in Christology if you aren't seeing the very basic problem both with your understanding of the Human and Divine Natures, the Hylemorphic fusion or the Doctrine of Divine Grace (Aquinas has extensive sections in the Summa) not to mention the integrity of the Trinity.
(God is Trinity and wholly complete in and of Himself, needing nothing of the world or us, creating us Ex Nihilo, because God is Love, but He really needs a human creature -- a wife -- to feel complete. Yup, no problems there.)
The footnote references to each of the councils in their entirety are contained in the footnotes to the CCC Article 3 of the Nicene Creed.
If the word dogma bothers you, you may wish to review What is Dogma by Charles Cardinal Journet
Edited on September 19, 2012 at 7:57pmRe: Christians—Keep Your Heads! Eructations, Bronx Cheers, Face Palms, and Eye Rolling Have No Place in the Body of Christ!
Pseud: Those speak in terms of the completeness of Jesus as divinity. In your words, "Check." I got it.
But what of Jesus the man? He was human enough to die. Not human enough to experience love?
Sep '10
Re: Christians—Keep Your Heads! Eructations, Bronx Cheers, Face Palms, and Eye Rolling Have No Place in the Body of Christ!
Tommy De Seno: Pseud: Those speak in terms of the completeness of Jesus as divinity. In your words, "Check." I got it.
But what of Jesus the man? He was human enough to die. Not human enough to experience love? · 8 minutes ago
All that was hashed out during the First Seven Ecumenical Councils and is clearly covered in the Catechism and the references I gave. You can reread the instructions from Pope John Paul II about the obligation of all Catholics to be well catechized and I've given you enough material to do that. The rest is up to you.
Re: Christians—Keep Your Heads! Eructations, Bronx Cheers, Face Palms, and Eye Rolling Have No Place in the Body of Christ!
Pseud: Citing materials and telling others to "go read" might give you a feeling of superiority, but I prefer "go understand" to "go read."
So understand this: Catholic teaching of the Incarnation is quite clear: Prior to the resurrection, Jesus had a duality: God and Man. The man part was man in EVERY way except sin. He could get sick, feel pain, suffer, be tempted and die. Completely human save sin.
Now, in the half dozen or so sources you've asked me to read, I invite you instead to show the source that states Jesus was exempted from love.
Jul '12
Re: Christians—Keep Your Heads! Eructations, Bronx Cheers, Face Palms, and Eye Rolling Have No Place in the Body of Christ!
Two excellent books by one author, F.F. Bruce the late Professor of Biblical Criticism and Exegesis at the University of Manchester, that deal with a lot of the questions being asked in this thread are linked below:
First is: "The Canon of Scripture"
Second is: "New Testament History"
The first book will help those understand how the 66 Books of the Bible came to be in there and the second book deals with the contemporary history of 1st Century Palestine and Rome and the subsequent history of the early Church.
Jul '12
Re: Christians—Keep Your Heads! Eructations, Bronx Cheers, Face Palms, and Eye Rolling Have No Place in the Body of Christ!
A third book by F.F. Bruce I should probably recommend that deals particularly with questions concerning the reliability of the various manuscripts and papyri that have been discovered throughout the years is also linked below:
"The New Testament Documents: Are They Reliable?"
Sep '10
Re: Christians—Keep Your Heads! Eructations, Bronx Cheers, Face Palms, and Eye Rolling Have No Place in the Body of Christ!
The materials were written for a reason and you were given free will for a reason. Your misunderstanding of Christ's dual nature shows that you have some kind of Cartesian misconception about Christ's human and divine nature and you're free to read up on how that conflicts with the Aristotelian hylemorphism that forms the basis of natural theology as it precedes dogmatic theology.
I don't visit Ricochet haranguing the legal scholars here to shore up basic misunderstandings I have regarding civil procedure or constitutional law, nor do I harangue physicists to clear up basic misunderstandings I have regarding classical newtonian physics or quantum physics. Theology is called the Queen of the Sciences by the Medievals for a reason, and I've given you ample material to do the basic reading without me.
If you wish to fling around accusations of superiority, you can feel free to do so, but, as a convert, I have little patience for people who aren't prepared to do some basic reading.
Good day.
Mar '11
Re: Christians—Keep Your Heads! Eructations, Bronx Cheers, Face Palms, and Eye Rolling Have No Place in the Body of Christ!
Wow, if finding a scrap of paper that mentions Jesus's wife blows their minds, I don't recommend that the NTY staff read any of the Apocrypha. The story of infant Jesus killing people during tantrums are especially memorable.
Re: Christians—Keep Your Heads! Eructations, Bronx Cheers, Face Palms, and Eye Rolling Have No Place in the Body of Christ!
Pseud: I've read all you cited friend, long before you cited it, and probably well before you converted.
Unless you can find me the scriptural verse or papal encyclical that supports your strange theory that Christ lacked the human capacity to fall in love, I'll simply return your well wishes for a good day.
PS: I implore you to harangue legal scholars regarding civil procedure or constitutional law, as well as physicists about classical newtonian physics or quantum physics. I abhor those who claim to be so expert in any field they are beyond cross examination.
Particularly the physicists. :-)
Edited on September 19, 2012 at 8:50pmJul '12
Re: Christians—Keep Your Heads! Eructations, Bronx Cheers, Face Palms, and Eye Rolling Have No Place in the Body of Christ!
Who has been arguing Jesus lacked the human capacity to fall in love?
Apr '12
Re: Christians—Keep Your Heads! Eructations, Bronx Cheers, Face Palms, and Eye Rolling Have No Place in the Body of Christ!
I'm a little gobsmacked at the idea of conflating being married with being able to experience love. Ignoring the whole "the only human who never sinned sacrificed Himself to save the rest" part of love, what kind of heartless SOB is going to marry a woman, knowing he'd leave her a widow, possibly with small children, in a time when that meant at best horrific poverty?!
What kind of person is going to try to argue Mother Teresa didn't know what love is, or any of a long list of celibate holy people, on the basis that they weren't married?
If He had a wife, though, she'd be at least as mentioned as His mother-- who, as it was mentioned earlier in this thread He took pains to see was taken care of.
Nov '11
Re: Christians—Keep Your Heads! Eructations, Bronx Cheers, Face Palms, and Eye Rolling Have No Place in the Body of Christ!
Yeah! Since when have love and marriage had any relation to one another!
(Not meant as a snarky response to the post,but rather as a nasty remark about marriage.)
Sep '10
Re: Christians—Keep Your Heads! Eructations, Bronx Cheers, Face Palms, and Eye Rolling Have No Place in the Body of Christ!
supports your strange theory that Christ lacked the human capacity to fall in love
Deus Caritas Est is a papal encyclical. Love is an English word: In Greek and Latin four different words connote love. Lewis's book and the encyclical explain that. I indicated a dogmatic impossibility of Christ taking a human wife. I said nothing about his human capacities which are technical scholastic terms requiring a knowledge of Thomistic natural psychology. Chapter 4 of Ed Feser's Aquinas covers the bare outlines with further references.
A proper understanding of definitions of terms is a basic tool of socratic enquiry and I referred you on to the appropriate sources.
The rich young man's disappointment in Christ's answer to his question in Matthew 19:16 was the lead off to Pope John Paul II's Veritatis Splendor, also an encyclical. I make no claim to expertise in any field, which is why I referred you onward to primary sources. You could of course also try Knowing the Love of Christ which is 146 pages long.
Dec '10
Re: Christians—Keep Your Heads! Eructations, Bronx Cheers, Face Palms, and Eye Rolling Have No Place in the Body of Christ!
Ahhh!!! Really, it's astonishing to come to Ricochet and read such blithering nonsense. I realize this is completely un-pc of me, but if you can't see the theological problems with Jesus having divided loyalties by being married, you're just not thinking. Jesus loves everyone and wants us all to be in communion with Him, but he's particularly fond of one woman? What about all the potential god-lets running around? Will Elizabeth Warren claim she's 1/320th part God? Seriously. I'm begging. Use the PM capabilities of the site and leave off exposing the embarrassing theological ignorance. I know we like to talk about everything, but this is just painful in public.
Re: Christians—Keep Your Heads! Eructations, Bronx Cheers, Face Palms, and Eye Rolling Have No Place in the Body of Christ!
@ Ben Glaser and Foxfier:
Pseud argued, in #57, that the very act of Christ falling in love would upend Divine Adoption.
Edited on September 19, 2012 at 10:14pmSep '10
Re: Christians—Keep Your Heads! Eructations, Bronx Cheers, Face Palms, and Eye Rolling Have No Place in the Body of Christ!
In Knowing the Love of Christ, Christ and his nature are not covered till Chapter 5, 77 pages into a 146 introductory text. I assume there's a reason for that. Alternatively, if you enjoy cross examining teachers there's a live conference on Chalcedonian Christology on October 5th through 6th in Washington DC at the Thomistic Institute sponsored by the Pontifical Faculty of the Immaculate Conception at the Dominican House of Studies.
Saturday, October 6th:
......
1:30 PM: Dr. Bruce D. Marshall
“The Grammar of the Two Natures.”
I wish you all the best in your cross examinations.
Sep '10
Re: Christians—Keep Your Heads! Eructations, Bronx Cheers, Face Palms, and Eye Rolling Have No Place in the Body of Christ!
I argued that taking a human wife would upend Divine Adoption. Nevertheless, enjoy the warmth of the strawmen bonfires that you have lit.
Re: Christians—Keep Your Heads! Eructations, Bronx Cheers, Face Palms, and Eye Rolling Have No Place in the Body of Christ!
Jesus overcame everycomplexity of being God and Man, which, and I say this respectfully, you seem to be missing is a "duality." He had both parts and operated simulatneously.
Jesus as Lord healed the sick. Jesus as Man got sick. The Incarnation was never broken for Him to do either- it's part of the mystery.
There is no reason to believe he couldn't juggle carrer and marriage.
One man's blithering nonsense is another's Cathecism.