Can't Anybody Here Play This Game?
So here’s what Romney said today when pressed by a reporter about his tax returns:
What’s the effective rate I’ve been paying?
[Looking squeamish and uncomfortable] It’s probably closer to the 15% rather that I think is my, uh, last ten years I’ve, uh, uh, my income comes overwhelmingly from, from investments made in the past rather than the ordinary income or rather than, um, earned annual income…”
What for heaven’s sake prevented him from saying something like, “My income these days comes from investments on the money I had left over after it was taxed the first time, so, as you know, our system says that once you’ve already paid taxes on it, you get a break the second time around—normally 15%. I’m not sure how close mine is to that, but I would think it would be in that neighborhood.”
I mean, can we at least take a stab at making the case, of articulating some of the underlying rationale? Where’s Newt when you need him?
Oh, wait, here he is, barely able to contain his delight at Romney’s discomfort:
He ought to release his taxes so we can find out if it was really 15%. And second, I think that we ought to rename our flat-tax. We have a 15% flat tax, so this will be the Mitt Romney flat-tax, and then all Americans can pay the rate Romney paid. I think that’s terrific!
Paging Marvin Throneberry…
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Jul '10
Re: Can't Anybody Here Play This Game?
You'd think They'd be prepared for such obvious questions, maybe having even practiced answering it.
Dec '11
Re: Can't Anybody Here Play This Game?
I looked into it once and I think a 19% flat tax (bottom withholdings when you include SS and Medicare) and the gas tax (which I like for an elegant funding of a club good), came pretty close to funding the government at its reasonable revenue expectations.
Feb '11
Re: Can't Anybody Here Play This Game?
Hilarious, and pitiful.
Cue Romney supporters to come in and attack Newt for something legal and irrelevant in 3...2...1...
Jul '11
Re: Can't Anybody Here Play This Game?
Stupid. Obama (actually his writers ) will give Romney fits that will make us wish we'd picked a tougher chap. Romney got cornered. Mitt, just admit you're rich and run your income through corporations like Buffett does or that it's investment income as was suggested.
Well Xennady, for the most part here it seems people stay on talking points without that diversion. But let me tell you about Newt's......
Edited on Jan 17 at 8:16pmFeb '11
Re: Can't Anybody Here Play This Game?
DocJay: Stupid. Obama (actually his writers ) will give Romney fits that will make us wish we'd picked a tougher chap.Romney got cornered Just admit you're rich and run your income through corporations like Buffett does or that it's investment income as was suggested.
Well Xennady, for the most part here it seems people stay on talking points without that diversion. But let me tell you about Newt's......
I just don't think I can adequately convey my stunned amazement that the front-runner and likely GOP nominee could manage to so badly fumble the most obvious possible question he could be asked about his life.
Whoops, wait a minute. That frontrunner is Mitt Romney.
Never mind, this is normal.
Re: Can't Anybody Here Play This Game?
Terrific post Henry you are absolutely right. He should have proudly come out with it.
Why in a capitalist system, which we are all a part of, do we not see the guys who do it best as heros?
Sep '10
Re: Can't Anybody Here Play This Game?
I think Mitt is hoping that Ann Coulter materializes at these events to give the answers he would eventually get around to giving.
Dec '11
Re: Can't Anybody Here Play This Game?
He should have said,
"Well,as you know, I've essentially been retired since I left office in Massachusetts, so my income is derived mostly from investments. And the tax on those investments averages about 15 percent.
Now, I think that's wrong. It should be zero percent. Why? Because Americans who invest already paid taxes once on that money. Americans already struggle to put a little money away for their future; they shouldn't have their savings taxed twice.
And because if we lowered that tax to zero percent, investment capital from all over the world would flow into America, creating new businesses and new jobs.
Now, if you want to talk about keeping that 15 percent rate for people like me, I'd personally do just fine. But for middle class people, it's a real injustice. And it's the wrong thing to do for the economy."
Sep '10
Re: Can't Anybody Here Play This Game?
And that, my friends, is the fully operational BattleNewt.
:-)
Edited on Jan 17 at 8:12pmRe: Can't Anybody Here Play This Game?
"What for heaven’s sake prevented him from saying something like, 'My income these days comes from investments on the money I had left over after it was taxed the first time, so, as you know, our system says that once you’ve already paid taxes on it, you get a break the second time around—normally 15%. I’m not sure how close mine is to that, but I would think it would be in that neighborhood.'"
What prevented him from saying it? Why, his electability, of course! We've heard so much about it, you know. I guess he just needs to harness it better.
Jan '12
Re: Can't Anybody Here Play This Game?
That is a pretty horrible response to a question that he should be able to answer in his sleep. In addition to what others have said here, I am apalled that no one (not just Romney) mentions the underlying corporate taxes paid on investments gains or dividends. So, yes, Romeny personally may pay a rate of roughly 15%, but bthe total effective rate he pays is likely 30-35% when including the underlying corporate taxes paid. I can't figure out why people continually fail to mention this. It is silly.
Re: Can't Anybody Here Play This Game?
I was shocked that he didn't say that this money had already been earned and taxed.
Dec '10
Re: Can't Anybody Here Play This Game?
You mean, like his campaign manager having anticipated questions like this and drilled him on giving a concise, sharp answer?
I wonder what criteria Mitt used to choose his campaign staff. Did "campaigning skills" show up on that list?
Dec '10
Re: Can't Anybody Here Play This Game?
But don't you rubes understand?
Romney is inevitable and the most electable, so we should all just lie back and think of England while he goes to town.
Or, that's what I've been told to think by my "betters" in the media (including some damned fool guests on our own podcasts).
I've said it once, and every time I hear Romney speak, I feel the need to say it again: We are all completely and utterly hosed.
So hosed, in fact, that it has gone from being funny to dead serious, and then all the way around the dial and back to funny again (in that rueful way you laugh after you see that your own torpedo has started to track your own submarine instead of the bad guy's, and there's nothing you can do but wait for it to hit the hull).
I've now begun the "waiting for the BOOM!" chuckle.
Ah well, it's been a good run folks. I kinda wish that the US would have outlived me and my children, but that appears to be too much to ask at present.
Jul '10
Re: Can't Anybody Here Play This Game?
Romney is a classic flustered country club liberal unable to unashamedly defend his wealth and Gingrich and Perry have unleashed bald Bolshevist attacks, painting the man as Gordon Gecko with no smoking gun to be found.
I don't give anyone, Bain or otherwise, a free pass in the name of capitalism. I have seen some very profitable atrocities. But where's the smoking gun? Where is the case that crossed the line from creative destruction into wanton rapaciousness, taking a stable, profitable business and throwing it under the bus for a one time gain?
Newt? Rick? Is this about Bain or about capitalism? Is there an unapologetic capitalist in the Republican Party and, if so, where is he hiding? We're trying to fill a prestigious position here. Don't be coy.
Were it me in the harness, my question would be: How does one turn as a mediocre, unreelectable one-term Massachusetts governor a President make? (Didn't run for reelection because he wasn't seeking a life in service? And immediately ran for President???) And how has he greased the GOP on his permanent presidential campaign to make the chorus sing such a silly love song?
May '11
Re: Can't Anybody Here Play This Game?
I'm so tired of Republican candidates and Romney in particular apologizing for their wealth and the taxes they pay. He should be justifiably proud of what we's earned and should release all his tax returns immediately. He's going to get the inevitable pushback from the left that any tax rate below 100% is unfair. He didn't write the tax code and its the privilege of every American to legally minimize their tax liabilities.
Jul '10
Re: Can't Anybody Here Play This Game?
CoolHand: ...
Ah well, it's been a good run folks. I kinda wish that the US would have outlived me and my children, but that appears to be too much to ask at present.
It's not over until we say it's over! [Insert long John Belushi rant here.]
Edited on Jan 18 at 7:21amSep '10
Re: Can't Anybody Here Play This Game?
K T Cat
And that, my friends, is the fully operational BattleNewt.
:-) · Jan 17 at 8:12pm
Edited on Jan 17 at 08:12 pm
You appear to be cheering the fact that a leading contendor for the GOP presidential nomination, in order to gain political advantage, is intentionally obscuring the difference between the federal income tax and federal capital gains tax. Or am I missing something?
Oct '10
Re: Can't Anybody Here Play This Game?
We did not need this sort of blunder. Romney already wanted to make investment income progressive, now he'll be forced to double down on that bit of policy. What's even worse, Republicans will end up on board the class warfare train, whether we want to or not (ugh).
From a policy standpoint, I don't have a problem with making investment taxes match income taxes (or perhaps a bit less)--but we're talking about the difference between 18.5% (roughly what the top bracket pays in income taxes) and 15%.
You just know the Democrats will argue for investment taxes to rise to the marginal top bracket rate of 35%. They don't want it to rise that much, of course--a great many wealthy investors are Democrats--but it would open new markets in rent-seeking as investors came cap in hand to Congress seeking tax credits.
Edited on Jan 18 at 8:54amApr '11
Re: Can't Anybody Here Play This Game?
I'm quoting this comment because I can't "Like" it a thousand more times.
As my CPA father is fond of saying, there is a big difference between tax avoidance and tax evasion.
I think anyone who files a federal tax return and keeps the resulting "refund" automatically forfeits his right to advocate higher taxes.