Can You Support Romney Without Supporting Romneycare?
To the good people of Ricochet who support Mitt Romney for the Republican nomination, please look at this as an opportunity. There simply has to be a better defense of Romney and/or Romneycare than the one being provided by his supporters Ann Coulter and David Frum. I was alerted to the situation by this Frum tweet:
@davidfrum Bravo for Ann Coulter for championing universal private health coverage w subsidies for those who need them. http://bit.ly/yX0TFC
Now, at this point in his career, I'd be surprised if Frum didn't champion what proponents call "universal private health coverage" and what the rest of us call a gross invasion of personal liberty. But if I know one thing, it's that Ann Coulter would never in a million years do the same, right?
In what is either high performance art or clear evidence that there's been some kind of body-snatching, Coulter defends Romneycare on the oddest grounds ever. She accuses conservatives of equating the Massachusetts plan to the federal plan solely because they have similar nicknames and cover the same general topic area. As Philip Klein writes at The Washington Examiner:
This is a shameful argument, and she must have a very low opinion of conservatives if she thinks this is actually true. In reality, people don’t compare Romneycare and Obamacare because their nicknames share the same basic structure, but because the laws have the same basic structure. Specifically, both laws expand Medicaid, force individuals to purchase government-approved insurance or pay a fine, and provide subsidies for individuals to purchase government-designed "private" insurance policies on government-run exchanges.
She points out that some conservatives supported Romneycare at the time. She doesn't mention the many conservatives who opposed it at the time. Then she argues that Romneycare is constitutional, an argument against what exactly? Are conservatives claiming that it's not? Hardly. As Klein asks, do conservatives oppose massive tax increases because they're unconstitutional? No.
Finally, she argues that all the problems of Romneycare are due to Massachusetts Democrats. There are a few problems with the argument. Namely, Romney signed the law (while seated underneath the smiling gaze of Ted Kennedy) knowing that Democrats had enough votes to override Romney's line-item vetoes. He signed it after he'd announced he wasn't running again. As Klein writes, "Part of being a limited government Republican is realizing that once you put the infrastructure in place, successors can always add to it."
If Coulter has decided that Romney is the best of the Republican options and she can’t stand Newt Gingrich, that’s fine. If she wants to argue that conservatives should trust Romney’s commitment to repealing Obamacare, okay. But she shouldn’t defend big government social welfare policy as conservative and treat conservatives like they're too dumb to understand the difference.
It's hard for people to hold competing thoughts in their head at the same time. This is precisely my worry -- that supporting Romney will lead people where Ann Coulter inexplicably has arrived -- to a full-throated defense of Romneycare.
So I ask the wonderful Romney supporters here -- help out those of us who are terrified. Is this what you have to do if you sign on to support Romney? Allay our fears! Show us a better way.
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Comments:
Dec '11
Re: Can You Support Romney Without Supporting Romneycare?
I told you guys yesterday this would happen. Now anybody not on board with Obamacare is an unthinking hate filled extremist. "The queen of conservative extremism thinks its conservative, what is wrong with you?"
The prophecy has now been fulfilled. We can now discuss the problems with Obamacare in 2082. See you then.
Sep '10
Re: Can You Support Romney Without Supporting Romneycare?
I'm busy thumbing through the Boston phone directory and am placing some calls to the first 50 names I find.
Re: Can You Support Romney Without Supporting Romneycare?
No. His position on the individual mandate is a disqualifier from my ever voting for him.
Jul '10
Re: Can You Support Romney Without Supporting Romneycare?
A vote for Romney is a vote for national RomneyCare. The candidate will pretend his intentions have changed under the duress imposed by voters he deems ignorant, and when he has a Republican Congress he will waste his mandate doubling down on the subjugation of the sovereign citizens of this republic with this appalling disaster that, among other things, dumps millions of hapless American families into the clutches of Medicaid, which criminalizes any physician advice not approved by Medicaid, or the provision of any treatment not approved by Medicaid, or the receipt of payment for any such treatment.
It is a fine system for Cal Ripkin, Jr., not so much for ordinary mortals. The good pain meds come with the hospice care, though. Consigning millions of sovereign citizens to it has been the effect of RomneyCare and ObamaCare. Coulter's defense of Romney does not take into account his shameless promotion of this nightmare as a success to be copied by the nation.
Ann used to care, and pay attention. I miss her.
Edited on February 2, 2012 at 4:37pmJul '11
Re: Can You Support Romney Without Supporting Romneycare?
One does not have to support Romneycare to support Romney, although one does have to accept that he will not abandon it. The good news is that he has repeatedly spoken about the differences between Obamacare and Romneycare, and has promised multiple times to repeal Obamacare.
Romney does not deserve support because he will legislate like a conservative, but rather because he will govern like a conservative. He will run a clean, effective administration that will pursue moderately conservative goals and he will support conservative legislation as it moves through congress. While that may not be enough for some conservatives, I think it's the best we can hope for with the current slate of candidates.
-E
Jul '11
Re: Can You Support Romney Without Supporting Romneycare?
A related question: does one have to support syphilis to choose the syphilitic camel over Obama?
That's the extent of my support for Romney - it ain't much, but it's all I've got.
Jul '10
Re: Can You Support Romney Without Supporting Romneycare?
Romney has no record of governing as a conservative, and does not deserve the support or leadership of a free people.
Jun '10
Re: Can You Support Romney Without Supporting Romneycare?
I think Romney promises last at least 3 or 4 years, before they expire, so I think we're okay for the first term.
Apr '11
Re: Can You Support Romney Without Supporting Romneycare?
I support Romney, but would have preferred that Romneycare died in the state legislature.
I do think that you have to disagree with Mark Levin, who suggests that Romneycare was against the Federal Constitution, and Prof. Rahe, who suggests that it might be against the State Constitution, while acknowledging that he has no basis for this except an intuition that John Adams would have been against Romneycare.
Likewise, you can't believe that it was the disaster that Levin suggests it was in financial terms, nor in democratic terms. You don't have to believe it was helpful, but you do have to accept that the scholarly papers that raise concerns about Massachusetts financial stability place most of the blame on the unpredictable revenue flows left by Governors Cellucci and Weld.
Right now, Massachusetts is doing pretty well. Unemployment is at 7%, way above the 4.6% Mitt left it at, but better than the national 8.5%. There's no deficit; when Mitt took over, there was a $3 billion deficit, but today they are still contributing to the rainy day fund Mitt started. When Levin says that Massachusetts is going bankrupt, he needs better statistics.
May '10
Re: Can You Support Romney Without Supporting Romneycare?
To explicitly answer the title of Mollie's post:
Supporting Romney without supporting Romneycare is like Cindy Sheehan and Code Pink claiming they support the troops.
Yeah.
Right.
Feb '11
Re: Can You Support Romney Without Supporting Romneycare?
Can You Support Romney Without Supporting Romneycare?
There never has been, and I am quite certain never will be, a candidate with whom I have agreed on every issue. My criterion is with whom do I disagree the least, taking into consideration all the issues.
The 2012 Republican field can only be approached with resignation. If I can be termed a Romney supporter, it is only in the sense that he is probably the least bad of a host of utterly dreadful choices, all of which would be unpalatable were it not for the worst choice of all - the one currently in the White House. That said, the whole RomneyCare/ObamaCare/Mandate debate is beside the point. Romney has said he will repeal ObamaCare. Fine. I'll take him at his word, bearing in mind that the President can't "repeal" any legislation. Only Congress can. I take him at his word that if Congress sends him a repeal bill he will sign it. Whether that sorry body can can find the will to pass the bill is something else all together.
Oct '10
Re: Can You Support Romney Without Supporting Romneycare?
Romney thinks he's being a savvy politician. Obama's genius is that he's able to make big government leftism sound reasonable, logical, and morally superior to a majority of Americans.
Romney manages to make slightly less big, slightly less leftist government sound cold and heartless.
Aug '11
Re: Can You Support Romney Without Supporting Romneycare?
CandE:
Romney does not deserve support because he will legislate like a conservative, but rather because he will govern like a conservative. He will run a clean, effective administration that will pursue moderately conservative goals and he will support conservative legislation as it moves through congress.
There's no evidence to suggest that what you say is a likelihood. There's plenty of evidence to suggest just the opposite -- that he will govern exactly like a Democrat. If Romney gets the nomination, I will consider this November's election to essentially be one Democrat attempting to oust another.
Sep '10
Re: Can You Support Romney Without Supporting Romneycare?
In the podcast, Ann linked her dislike of the Massachusetts mandate to being forced to pay local taxes for education but what made them both okay was that the state was doing it. ... (crickets) ... Mickey should have told her it was a preposterous point of view, conservative or not. I mean, are we to believe that had she been a Massachusetts voter when Romneycare was passed that she would have been a supporter?
Apr '11
Re: Can You Support Romney Without Supporting Romneycare?
In terms of political support, Levin says that while a 2006 survey suggests support for MassCare, a more recent survey suggests opposition. I'm pretty sure he's referring to this survey from last April, which does not ask about Romneycare, but rather asks "Do you think healthcare in Massachusetts is working?" It does so after a lengthy series of questions about horse race issues in the gubernatorial and Senate race.
A detailed, specific, and accurate poll can be found here. Turns out Massachusetts is still pretty keen on it. Again, I offer this only to rebut claims to the contrary, not to advocate the law.
When Levin says that it's unconstitutional because it offends individual sovereignty, he's not defending the Constitution, but maligning it. The Constitution is not a vague aspiration, but a specific set of rights, none of which is an applicable "individual sovereignty" right. Romney's superior understanding of federalism is the strongest argument for supporting his view of Romneycare than any other.
race.
Sep '10
Re: Can You Support Romney Without Supporting Romneycare?
I do think that you have to disagree with Mark Levin, who suggests that Romneycare was against the Federal Constitution, and Prof. Rahe, who suggests that it might be against the State Constitution, while acknowledging that he has no basis for this except an intuition that John Adams would have been against Romneycare.
This sounds like a LawTalk podcast in the making.
Apr '11
Re: Can You Support Romney Without Supporting Romneycare?
DrewInWisconsin
CandE:
Romney does not deserve support because he will legislate like a conservative, but rather because he will govern like a conservative. He will run a clean, effective administration that will pursue moderately conservative goals and he will support conservative legislation as it moves through congress.
There's no evidence to suggest that what you say is a likelihood. There's plenty of evidence to suggest just the opposite -- that he will govern exactly like a Democrat. If Romney gets the nomination, I will consider this November's election to essentially be one Democrat attempting to oust another. · 9 minutes ago
He's always been strong on immigration. His record and philosophy on the judiciary was enough to earn him Justice Bork's endorsement. His foreign policy has been conservative enough to earn him Ambassador Bolton's support, despite Newt explicitly stating that he would appoint Bolton to Secretary of State. His record of cutting spending is unmatched in the field, particularly now. He is no friend to labor, and makes stronger anti-union promises than any recent candidate. He has always been a keen supporter of conservative education reform.
Where are the Democrats like that?
Jan '11
Re: Can You Support Romney Without Supporting Romneycare?
It might be worth the time if there was actually a chance that the contributors were ever going to stop using the site as a stomping ground for relentless Romney bashing and once in awhile give him his due, or at least treat his opponents with the same hyper-scrutiny they continually deploy against him. But this place has become nothing but a nonstop anti-Romney HQ pandering to a loyal clique of regulars that devote 80 comments per anti-Romney post. You'll notice most of the Romney supporters don't even bother anymore because there is no sign that any contributors here are even interested in being objective about the topic. I mean isn't it odd that a place selling itself as center right doesn't feature a single contributor, not one, who will support Romney?
Edited on February 2, 2012 at 5:08pmApr '11
Re: Can You Support Romney Without Supporting Romneycare?
Pseudodionysius: I do think that you have to disagree with Mark Levin, who suggests that Romneycare was against the Federal Constitution, and Prof. Rahe, who suggests that it might be against the State Constitution, while acknowledging that he has no basis for this except an intuition that John Adams would have been against Romneycare.
This sounds like a LawTalk podcast in the making. · 2 minutes ago
If the powers that be can make this happen, I would be ecstatic. It could make a material difference to November's election.
Jul '11
Re: Can You Support Romney Without Supporting Romneycare?
If you are a moderate politician in a liberal state that demands socialized medicine you hold your finger up to the wind and let it happen with your own managerial touch. If you are a moderate president and the house and senate want Obamacare repealed, you hold your finger to the wind and sign the bill repealing it. If you are a moderate and refuse the will of the people we send some pipe hitting boys over to your house to get medieval on you.
Edited on February 2, 2012 at 5:40pm