Can There be a Husband Without a Wife; and Can There be a Marriage Without Either?
If it's not too much of an imposition, could I get some feedback on this statement?:
In our society, marriage has historically been between a man and a woman. This historical fact has its basis in the Judeo-Christian roots of our country, which has as its foundation the Bible and a biblical understanding of spiritual things. Since the spiritual meaning of marriage is an agreement or contract between a husband and a wife, the contract of marriage between same-sex persons is not any more a valid contract than a contract between two persons for the delivery of a square circle. The marriage contract is a sacred contract having to do with spiritual things. Because it is, by nature, spiritual, marriage cannot be a contract between two husbands or two wives. If same-sex union is desired in our society it must be of a civil nature, not a spiritual nature.
In other words: Marriage to a husband makes a woman a wife just as marriage to a wife makes a man a husband. It is a mystery and therefore the simile to the wedding band as a never-ending circle. Joining to another man will never make a man a husband just as joining to another woman will never make a woman a wife.
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Comments:
Jun '12
Re: Can There be a Husband Without a Wife; and Can There be a Marriage Without Either?
FWIW. I concur.
Jul '10
Re: Can There be a Husband Without a Wife; and Can There be a Marriage Without Either?
Actually, quite apart from the Bible, society in general has created marriage as a monogamous relationship for many thousands of years. Yes, there are exceptions, but generally harems have only been for the kings.
Homosexuality, OTOH, has been a dominance play, creating one who lords it over another man. That Paul speaks to it only supports the lack of social benefit.
Oct '12
Re: Can There be a Husband Without a Wife; and Can There be a Marriage Without Either?
Huh? Can you tell me why someone shouldn't be able marry the person they love without invoking religious reasoning? In case you haven't read the constitution lately, we are not a "Christian" country, we have freedom of religion here and that includes the freedom to not have someone else's religious beliefs shoved down their throats. I completely respect you and your churches wish not support gay marriage. No proposed marriage equality law would force churches to do this. Why do you religious conservatives insist on forcing your views on the rest us? Guess what happened when gays were allowed to serve openly in the military? Absolutely nothing except a few dedicated warfighters were able to keep their jobs.
Jul '11
Re: Can There be a Husband Without a Wife; and Can There be a Marriage Without Either?
And their off,
this should be fun.
Oct '12
Re: Can There be a Husband Without a Wife; and Can There be a Marriage Without Either?
And by the way most of the founding fathers (including Washington and Jefferson) were Diests. Do you know what that means?
Sep '10
Re: Can There be a Husband Without a Wife; and Can There be a Marriage Without Either?
Snark has no place here.
Sep '10
Re: Can There be a Husband Without a Wife; and Can There be a Marriage Without Either?
I agree. Marriage has a perfectly legitimate civil meaning. You can get married by the local justice of the peace or equivalent without going to church. This was true long before there was gay marriage.
Regarding the rest of your post, the snark does not add to the discussion at all.
Edit: To further bolster the civil status of marriage, note that it is the civil authority that grants divorce. Marriage has a very specific and binding meaning in family law that is totally independent of any religion. No church can free you of a noisome spouse; only the state can.
Edited on October 30, 2012 at 5:34amJun '10
Re: Can There be a Husband Without a Wife; and Can There be a Marriage Without Either?
False. Some were deists, but most were deeply religious men. John Adams, James Madison, Alexander Hamilton, Sam Adams, John Hancock, etc. and yes, George Washington, who said this at the first Thanksgiving holiday: “Whereas it is the duty of all nations to acknowledge the providence of Almighty God, to obey His will, to be grateful for his benefits, and humbly to implore His protection and favor.."
Oct '12
Re: Can There be a Husband Without a Wife; and Can There be a Marriage Without Either?
Forgive me if this is a terribly rude question...but how does one consummate a same-sex marriage? Or are all same-sex unions--especially those between two women--presumptively annullable?
Or are concepts like consummation and annulment on grounds of non-consummation to be chucked in the dumpster along with so much else?
Edited on October 30, 2012 at 5:28amJul '11
Re: Can There be a Husband Without a Wife; and Can There be a Marriage Without Either?
Washington was an Anglican which after the Revolution became the Episcopalian Church. He was baptized, served offices in and was buried under the rites of his religion. His bible has been kept and is occasionally used to swear in Presidents.
Edited on October 30, 2012 at 5:38amJun '10
Re: Can There be a Husband Without a Wife; and Can There be a Marriage Without Either?
Children have a right to a mom and a dad. That is the ideal. Sure, it doesn't always work out that way, there is divorce, couples who decide not to have kids, gay couples, etc. But as a society we should give a special consideration to the best arrangement for children, which is marriage between a man and a woman. And yes, I know, liberals will deny that kids need a mom and dad.
Dec '10
Re: Can There be a Husband Without a Wife; and Can There be a Marriage Without Either?
Really? Many thousands of years? Are you aware that Islam is this planet's largest religiom? Any moslem man may have four wives. On what planet is polygamy just for kings?
Edited on October 30, 2012 at 11:34amOct '12
Re: Can There be a Husband Without a Wife; and Can There be a Marriage Without Either?
drlorentz
Snark has no place here. · 1 hour ago
my bad. Sorry
Oct '12
Re: Can There be a Husband Without a Wife; and Can There be a Marriage Without Either?
Foxman
Really? Many thousands of years? Are you aware that Islam is this planet's largest religiom? Any moslem man may have four wives. On what planet is polygamy just for king? · 44 minutes ago
Edited 43 minutes ago
Utah in the 19th century... oh no, maybe not.
Apr '11
Re: Can There be a Husband Without a Wife; and Can There be a Marriage Without Either?
Keith Keystone
Children have a right to a mom and a dad.
I must disagree with you. No one has a "right" to a mom or a dad. By consequence of biology everybody has a mother and a father, but there is no individual right to be either raised or loved by these two people. Talking about what is ideal to me seems irrelevant in this case, since many people already lack ideal families. Are homosexual families so unideal as to be thought worse than any heterosexual arrangement.
It would seem to me that even if homosexual families are not the ideal child rearing environment they may still offer an environment that is still preferable to many other alternatives.
Oct '12
Re: Can There be a Husband Without a Wife; and Can There be a Marriage Without Either?
Blog Goliard: Forgive me if this is a terribly rude question...but how does one consummate a same-sex marriage? Or are all same-sex unions--especially those between two women--presumptively annullable?
Or are concepts like consummation and annulment on grounds of non-consummation to be chucked in the dumpster along with so much else? · 1 hour ago
Edited 1 hour ago
I admit that my comment about Deists was snarky and uncalled for in this forum. I'm sorry it violated the stated premise of this blog. Does anyone think Goliards questions were also snarky?
The concept and importance of consummation and annulment vary depending on which faith you subscribe to. They have no relevance to the civil marriage discussion. This is yet another example of religious conservatives trying to force their views of morality on the rest of us.
Oct '12
Re: Can There be a Husband Without a Wife; and Can There be a Marriage Without Either?
Keith Keystone
Children have a right to a mom and a dad.
Having your biological mom and dad raise you is great, but there is no legal right to this, and as we all know, this is not always the situation. Your "special consideration" sounds like a code word for discrimination against folks who want to marry their same sex lovers. It also sounds like you would deny gays the right to marry because they would make bad parents. Is there any evidence (besides your religious beliefs) that shows this is the case?
May '12
Re: Can There be a Husband Without a Wife; and Can There be a Marriage Without Either?
Yet another post on gay marriage.
Look, I've critiqued gay marriage and its negative consequences for society and will continue to do so. However, what really pi$$es me off is that the same people arguing against gay marriage have failed to defend "traditional marriage" in any meaningful way for the past 40-50 years.
Look, y'all tell me which of the following numbers you and every SoCon should be getting their panties in a bunch about;
Divorces per year among heterosexuals:
2010: 872,000*
*Excludes data from California, Georgia, Hawaii, Indiana, & Louisiana.
The total number of homosexual couples declaring themselves 'Married' in 2011:
131,729
That's 131,729 gay married couples declaring themselves "married" in their totality vs. 872,000+ heterosexual divorces per year.
Social Conservatives want people to take the threat to heterosexual marriage posed by gay marriage seriously when traditional marriage, families, men, women, and children have been getting their arses kicked by no-fault divorce, feminism, and the legal system for the past 40-50 years.
Until SoCons defend what's left of traditional marriage, criticizing gay marriage is just laughably obtuse if not cowardly.
Aug '12
Re: Can There be a Husband Without a Wife; and Can There be a Marriage Without Either?
If there's a defining trait of marriage that precludes gay marriage, I'd say it's fecundity, not spirituality. A great part of the joy of a wedding is in the promise of regeneration. Two men or two women can form a lasting bond and can nurture a child and pass on knowledge and wisdom, but that element of renewal, which is so deep in our culture and our literature, is missing.
Jan '12
Re: Can There be a Husband Without a Wife; and Can There be a Marriage Without Either?
If our society is going to discard gender distinctions in marriage, then what defensible reason is there to cling to monogamy? We've already been told by anthropologists that male-female sexual relationships lasting longer than 6 or 7 years are unnatural. Polyamory is quite common among my age group (18-25) and so normalizing polygamy in the near future looks plausible from where I stand.
The Romans understood the societal problems associated with polygamy. Poor/less powerful men could not find mates and were therefore less productive because they didn't have a stake in the future. That is the logical direction I see Western marriage going. It's going to devolve into rule of the alpha male.
Edited on October 30, 2012 at 9:07am