Bill Kristol versus Jim DeMint
Making the case for the Ron Paul purge, The Weekly Standard's Bill Kristol:
“A lot of people when they criticize Ron Paul have to preface their criticism by saying, ‘you know, he’s good guy, he brings a lot to the debate,’” Bill Kristol said on C-SPAN. “I actually don’t buy that. I do not think he’s a particular good guy . . . I think it would be better for the Republican party, if he left the Republican party.”
[...]
“[Buchanan] left the party in 1999 and a lot of people, and I was one of them, said, goodbye and good riddance, you’re not in the mainstream of the Republican party, go run as some Reform party candidate . . . he did in 2000 and he didn’t get many votes and actually George W. Bush I think was helped—and the Republican party was helped—to be free of Buchanan’s extreme isolationism, protectionism, anti-Israel views, and the like. Ron Paul is a little different from Pat Buchanan—but he’s no better, in my view. And I actually think we’d benefit in the long run—but even in the short run . . .I don't think anyone should plead with him not to run or to stay in the party. I would be comfortable in a general election if Mitt Romney or Newt Gingrich or Rick Santorum as the Republican in the Reagan tradition and debating both Barack Obama and Ron Paul.”
And on the other side of the great Paul debate, Sen. Jim DeMint:
"One of the things that's hurt the so-called conservative alternative is saying negative things about Ron Paul," DeMint told conservative radio host Laura Ingraham. "I'd like to see a Republican Party that embraces a lot of the libertarian ideas."
Moreover, Sen. DeMint has said that he really hopes Ron Paul stays in the race for as long as it takes for the GOP frontrunner to adopt some of Rep. Paul's ideas. And as was pointed out over on the Member Feed, Sarah Palin has articulated something very similar.
So who's got this one right? Would the conservative cause be better off if Ron Paul made his exit from the GOP now, or does he bring something of value to the table?
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Comments :
Feb '11
Re: Bill Kristol versus Jim DeMint
Keep Ron Paul. Dump Bill Kristol.
Dec '10
Re: Bill Kristol versus Jim DeMint
Some of Paul's ideas need a much better spokesman. Other of his ideas need to be utterly shunned. The sandwich board may rightly proclaim that the end of the world is nigh, but the message gets lost because of the guy in his underwear inside the sign.
Apr '11
Re: Bill Kristol versus Jim DeMint
A good rule of thumb to follow in politics is - "Bill Kristol is always wrong." Act based on that and you will come out ahead a lot more often than not.
In all seriousness, Kristol has a very bad habit of seeing what he wants to see, and substituting wishes for honest analysis. He can't see that neoconservatism is over, and Nixon-Kissinger style realpolitic (if not actual isolationism) is in.
Re: Bill Kristol versus Jim DeMint
Bill Kristol is right on the money when he compares Ron Paul with Pat Buchanan. We would be better off without him.
Apr '11
Re: Bill Kristol versus Jim DeMint
If we had actually listened to Pat Buchanan on immigration policy two decades ago, we might not now be facing the demographic disaster that's right around the corner, and large portions of California, Arizona etc, would not so closely resemble third world hellholes..
Apr '11
Re: Bill Kristol versus Jim DeMint
It's my opinion that the future of the Republican party will be closer to the ideal of Ron Paul than not. Libertarianism is gaining serious traction and Big Government Republicanism can't compete with the real thing on the Left. This is why McCain couldn't win and why people are nervous about Romney. Recent polling has Ron Paul even with Obama in a heads up match. The cries of him being unelectable seem to be losing their volume, enthusiasm and frequency.
Dec '10
Re: Bill Kristol versus Jim DeMint
There's one good reason not to purge Ron Paul from the party. Rand Paul. And why Ron Paul chose to run this year instead of his son is an ongoing mystery to me.
Re: Bill Kristol versus Jim DeMint
I think the Republican Party needs to be big enough to include both Ron Paul and Bill Kristol in order to win.
Jan '12
Re: Bill Kristol versus Jim DeMint
I don't think Republicans want to play at political purity and to exile "non persons" to figurative Siberia. That is the tactic of the PC Democrats of the Left. Don't we on the conservative side want to offer a forum for all ideas that point toward a smaller, more Constitutional government? If for no other reason than for electoral survival, Republicans should not so severely repudiate Ron Paul and his supporters. That way lies the madness of third party and the inevitable re-election of Obama, who on his best day poses a far greater threat to the republic than Ron Paul on his worst. The bad ideas of Paul and Buchanan nevertheless contain some elements of salutary truth. I should hope that Republicans are smart enough to perform the requisite alchemy and so to extract the gold from the base matter. Such an exercise would go a long way to convince the electorate that they are no longer stubborn partisans of the Party of Stupid.
Mr. Kristol seems to be exhibiting not a small smidgen of Stalinism here, no?
Nov '10
Re: Bill Kristol versus Jim DeMint
Ron Paul is a conservative, whether he, you, or anybody else thinks.
Hayek strongly denied that he was a "conservative". Probably the word was somehow tainted for him. But his rationale for free market was that it is too dynamic to understand, messing with it destroys it, and we should just leave it alone. [Re: The Fatal Conceit].
This, to me, is the premise of conservatism: Be humble, don't think you're smart enough to understand why things are the way they are. Dangerous to tamper with culture and economics.
Edited on Jan 17 at 3:12pmDec '10
Re: Bill Kristol versus Jim DeMint
"[G]oodbye and good riddance, you’re not in the mainstream of the Republican party..."
I eagerly await the day when I can say this, with total honesty, to Bill Kristol.
My instincts are to agree with Ben when he says the party should be big enough to include us both. But if Kristol thinks that about me...well...I'm not a good enough Christian to turn the other cheek.
Jun '10
Re: Bill Kristol versus Jim DeMint
Genius!
Dec '10
Re: Bill Kristol versus Jim DeMint
I'm trying to coin a phrase that is the appropriate response to Ron Paul: we're with him right up to the shore. Yes, libertarianism and constitutionalism are on the rise, but utopian isolationism is exceptionally ignorant of the fact that we must remain engaged with the rest of the world. He is right that we don't need to be in wars around the globe (duh), but he is wrong that hunkering down inside our shell is the corrective action. Pulling the covers over our heads won't make the bogey man go away.
Jun '10
Re: Bill Kristol versus Jim DeMint
I'm a little nervous about Rand Paul. How much is he actually in line with his father's ideas but has learned not to promote them? I really want to know more about his actual beliefs before I get behind this reflexive support for Rand. I worry that he is a little bit of a stealth candidate.
Prove me wrong, by all means. But, I want a healthy skeptical attitude until I am certain he's not a Manchurian type pol.
Oct '10
Re: Bill Kristol versus Jim DeMint
And has William Kristol brought an entire cohort of young people into the Republican party as Ron Paul has done? Republican strategists have been worrying for decades about the greying of the Republican electorate. Then somebody comes along who fixes that and their immediate reaction is to purge him from the party.
Welcome to the geriatric eroding majority, Mr. Kristol. I hope you find it sufficiently pure.
Work the numbers: if the 9–17% of the GOP electorate which turns out for Ron Paul feels abused and excluded and stays home, where precisely is the path to victory for any GOP candidate in any contested venue?
Edited on Jan 17 at 4:36pmRe: Bill Kristol versus Jim DeMint
Noesis Noeseos:
Mr. Kristol seems to be exhibiting not a small smidgen of Stalinism here, no? · Jan 17 at 3:06pm
Hm...I don't know if that's entirely fair. Bill Buckley denounced the John Birch society and its founder Robert Welch back in the '60s. Granted, the Birch society was less influential than Ron Paul, but it was a prototype of purging craziness out of the party, wasn't it?
May '10
Re: Bill Kristol versus Jim DeMint
Good grief, there are more sweeping assumptions and unsupported assertions in this than you get in three Obama speeches.
What is the evidence that "libertarianism is gaining serious traction"? Paul is ahead of his last run because he now also gets the leftist isolationists who are mad at their hero Obama. McCain couldn't win because he was a lousy candidate in a metaphysically Democrat year. And sober realists still cry that Paul is unelectable. Why? Because he still is.
Paul should be able to fit into the big center-right tent if he is willing to live there rather than pull it down from the inside. Kristol is suspicious (I am too) that he would rather pull it down.
Dec '10
Re: Bill Kristol versus Jim DeMint
Ron Paul's fangirls are not necessarily in the party.
Jun '10
Re: Bill Kristol versus Jim DeMint
David John: Ron Paul is a conservative, whether he, you, or anybody else thinks.
Hayek strongly denied that he was a "conservative". Probably the word was somehow tainted for him. But his rationale for free market was that it is too dynamic to understand, messing with it destroys it, and we should just leave it alone. [Re: The Fatal Conceit].
This, to me, is the premise of conservatism: Be humble, don't think you're smart enough to understand why things are the way they are. Dangerous to tamper with culture and economics.
William F. Buckley, Jr. had to purge the John Birchers from "National Review". There's a line in every relationship that cannot be crossed. We need a big tent approach to make any large coalition party work but we don't want to compromise on the big issues.
Prawn above has put his finger on the exact problem with Ron Paul -- he's the problem not some of his message. This is intuitive, I admit. I am just uncomfortable with him. I don't trust him.
Kristol's comparison with Buchanan is spot on.
Dec '10
Re: Bill Kristol versus Jim DeMint
What are the limits to the boundaries of the Big Tent? For example, should the Republican Party be inclusive enough to encompass David Duke when he claims to be a Republican?