Bad news for Mitt Romney
Michael Tee ·
January 5, 2012 at 8:20pm
Saw this on Twitter. It's fairly...devastating.
- Comment (149)
- · Quote
- · UnfollowFollow (7)
Become a Member to enjoy the full benefits of Ricochet:
- Let your voice be heard! Join the conversation -- or start your own.
- Follow your favorite Contributors and fellow Members
- Enjoy Premium Podcasts
- Read Member-initiated conversations
- Keep tabs on your favorite conversations
- Like, Quote or Share your favorite post or comments
- Receive special Member-only invitations... and more!
Ricochet: The Right People, The Right Tone, The Right Place. Join today!
Already a Member? Sign In
Comments:
May '11
Re: Bad news for Mitt Romney
Absolutely Tommy, I was thinking the same thing.
Tommy De Seno: Someone needs to ask that fellow in the video how many concessions his union agreed to make while the prior owners were losing all the money they had worked for. More of a full story.
Doesn't Ricochet have any investigative reporters? · Jan 5 at 11:40am
Edited on Jan 05 at 11:43 am
Re: Bad news for Mitt Romney
The sad (and ominous) thing about this kind of anti-Romney advertising is that its capacity to succeed will be proportional to the American electorate's ignorance of basic economics. How many of you want to bet that our side has the math in its favor on that question?
Edited on January 5, 2012 at 8:54pmNov '11
Re: Bad news for Mitt Romney
genferei
katievs We use tariffs, tax incentives, etc. to encourage behavior that's in the best interests of the country ...
That's very different from bailouts and crony-capitalism designed to enrich particular people or companies at the expense of the competition.
It's exactly the same on two levels:
1. It shifts the focus of big business from satisfying customers to convincing Washington that they are too strategic to fail....
2. It reduces the size of the pie for everyone.....That's the road to North Korea, not liberty. · Jan 5 at 11:09am
In support of Katie, I believe that while we want to recognize that government interference in the market causes huge difficulties and therefore should be kept to a minimum, the government may also sometimes need to make economic decisions in the interest of national security, such as, for instance, preventing an enemy from cornering a market in a strategic good. The market by itself does not solve all problems.
Mar '11
Re: Bad news for Mitt Romney
The sad (and ominous) thing about this kind of anti-Romney advertising is that its capacity to succeed will be proportional to the American electorate's ignorance of basic economics. How many of you want to bet that our side has the math in its favor on that question?
Exactly, Troy. And sad.
But the DNC isn't going to play nice in the general. We know what the lines of attack are going to be on Romney--he's a flip flopper, and he's the 1%. Maybe they'll try to pain him as super right wing, but I think everybody knows that's not going to fly very far.
Now imagine the DNC ads against the ABRs. Just because we haven't seen them play their hand yet doesn't mean they won't be brutal.
See, for example, the Colbert Report clip that Andrew Sullivan has up right now for Santorum.
Jan '11
Re: Bad news for Mitt Romney
Troy Senik, Ed.: The sad (and ominous) thing about this kind of anti-Romney advertising is that its capacity to succeed will be proportional to the American electorate's ignorance of basic economics. How many of you want to bet that our side has the math in its favor on that question? · Jan 5 at 11:53am
Won't take that bet. The ignorance exists even on 'our side' thereby making the 'math' on this really scary.
Oct '11
Re: Bad news for Mitt Romney
And the perfect response by Romney should be that AK Steel replace Countrywide on the S&P 500. Yes, that same Countrywide that made all those subprime mortgages and with the friends of Angelo program. That same Countrywide that is now part of the bailed out Bank of America..... Romney seems to have made/saved a real company that makes real things. Others in Washington, well you know....
http://www.bizjournals.com/charlotte/stories/2008/06/30/daily3.html
Dec '11
Re: Bad news for Mitt Romney
Troy Senik, Ed.: The sad (and ominous) thing about this kind of anti-Romney advertising is that its capacity to succeed will be proportional to the American electorate's ignorance of basic economics. How many of you want to bet that our side has the math in its favor on that question? · Jan 5 at 11:53am
Edited on Jan 05 at 11:54 am
Not really ignorance troy. Its a function of esteem. They can accept the necessity of the existence of the decomposer in economic affairs, but they dont have to like them or hold them in the same regard as they would the people who created things which will one day be decomposed.
Apr '11
Re: Bad news for Mitt Romney
Wait, Moveon.org is funded by George Soros, and how does he make his money?
Mar '11
Re: Bad news for Mitt Romney
Of course the Democrats will be pussycats to anyone else who might get nominated. Hopefully most Americans don't buy into the idea that unprofitable enterprises should be kept open for the sake of their employees. Otherwise we're going to see a lot more GMs and Chryslers in our future. If Occupy Wall Street really represents the 99% then we've got bigger problems than who our nominee is.
Jan '11
Re: Bad news for Mitt Romney
Guruforhire
Troy Senik, Ed.: The sad (and ominous) thing about this kind of anti-Romney advertising is that its capacity to succeed will be proportional to the American electorate's ignorance of basic economics. How many of you want to bet that our side has the math in its favor on that question? · Jan 5 at 11:53am
Edited on Jan 05 at 11:54 am
Not really ignorance troy. Its a function of esteem. They can accept the necessity of the existence of the decomposer in economic affairs, but they dont have to like them or hold them in the same regard as they would the people who created things which will one day be decomposed. · Jan 5 at 12:07pm
I think that it is ignorance. If not then how to explain the traction of ideas that turn into conventional wisdom such as: war/natural disasters are stimulative; trade deficits are bad; minimum wage increases are good; the stock market is the economy; the big box retailers are exploiting the average worker and are bad for the economy because they undercut mom and pop stores [forgetting about the consumer surpluses]?
Oct '10
Re: Bad news for Mitt Romney
I'd be much more willing to go to bat for Romney in his defense if he wasn't also playing the class warfare card with his tax plan. The guy wants it both ways.
Aug '11
Re: Bad news for Mitt Romney
Richard Young
Of course the Democrats will be pussycats to anyone else who might get nominated. Hopefully most Americans don't buy into the idea that unprofitable enterprises should be kept open for the sake of their employees.
Like I said above, I think we kid ourselves when we believe that the general public doesn't sympathize with the Occupy protests.
But do you really think Romney has the ability to effectively communicate to Americans why this isn't a fair assessment of the situation?
The repeated assertion that he's holding back now so he can fire all cannons during the general just doesn't wash with me.
Jul '10
Re: Bad news for Mitt Romney
That video is only the first, you can expect hundreds of worker type testimonials and dozens of executive types telling the story of a Romney that kills companies to make millions. Any working guy sitting on the fence about voting for Obama or voting for Romney will rush back to Obama.
Having employed a lot of high school educated working class guys I can tell you for certain they don't think like Todd or Drew or LowCountry Joe or most of the others who posted here. Even though the democrats probably created the evironment that made the plant unprofitable those guys belive the democrats care about them. After all, the main stream media feeds them that crap every day of the year.
Why we never allowed this kind of veting of Romney is beyond me...
Note to Romney, lets get all these people out and telling their story now. It will be too late after the primary!!!
Jun '10
Re: Bad news for Mitt Romney
Guruforhire
Joseph Stanko
Guruforhire
Depends on what they did. I can see clearing a million selling off the tooling from a factory and then opening up operations overseas. · Jan 5 at 9:57am
But don't you then need to buy the same tools for the overseas factory? I get that labor is cheaper in China, but are new tools over there so much cheaper than used tools over here? · Jan 5 at 11:44am
Yes. a 60 year old southbend goes for the same price as a new chinese made lathe.
Ok, but if the tools go "for the same price" here and there, then you clear a million selling off the tooling from the factory here, spend that million buying brand new tools over there, and you're back to even. Forgive me if I'm being dense, but where do the "millions in profits" for Bain Capital come from in that transaction?
Dec '11
Re: Bad news for Mitt Romney
LowcountryJoe
I think that it is ignorance. If not then how to explain the traction of ideas that turn into conventional wisdom such as: war/natural disasters are stimulative; trade deficits are bad; minimum wage increases are good; the stock market is the economy; the big box retailers are exploiting the average worker and are bad for the economy because they undercut mom and pop stores [forgetting about the consumer surpluses]? · Jan 5 at 12:21pm
You really expect the people to hold the wall street guys who will some day come in and pick over the remains of Apple and Microsoft which will someday be inevitable with the same esteem as they would Bill Gates and Steve Jobs?
Like I said earlier, you are going to have a hard time convincing people that the carrion beatle on their dead kitten is just as awesome as their kitten was.
I concede its not fair, but it is what it is.
Edited on January 5, 2012 at 9:36pmDec '10
Re: Bad news for Mitt Romney
If Gingrich's ad on Romney's timidity is fair and ineffective, this MoveOn.org ad is unfair and devastating.
The man in the ad is a "victim" of what Schumpeter called "creative destruction." As BThompson and LowcountryJoe point out, a healthy capitalist economy constantly replaces companies and industries that are inefficient with ones that provide more value for the invested capital and produce more value for the consumer.
But Romney is going to have to educate voters to understand that and believe it because of ads like this one. It's much easier for Obama to make the absurd argument that technology destroys jobs because people can picture bank tellers and telephone operators and travel agents being out of work, whereas they can't see the millions of jobs created from the evolution of banking and telecommunication and Internet commerce that enables travel self-booking.
Unless Romney is able and willing to create ads and other messaging to counter this ad, to show that some jobs lost at that mill were outweighed by other jobs created elsewhere, he's going to be vulnerable to this line of attack. He cannot afford to ignore or dismiss it.
Dec '10
Re: Bad news for Mitt Romney
Joseph Stanko
Ok, but if the tools go "for the same price" here and there, then you clear a million selling off the tooling from the factory here, spend that million buying brand new tools over there, and you're back to even. Forgive me if I'm being dense, but where do the "millions in profits" for Bain Capital come from in that transaction?
You've bought a company with an existing customer base. You've traded -- at no additional cost, due to the different cost structures -- a factory and labor base that were producing the product at high cost and selling at a loss for a factory and labor base that produce the same product with greater efficiency due to the newer equipment and lower labor cost, so now your product cost is less and you can make a profit even if you cut prices. So you reduce your product's sales price, gain market share, and increase profit even more. Then you sell this new moneymaking business to people who want to run it for the long term, and they pay you a multiple of earnings, way more than paid for it. QED.
May '10
Re: Bad news for Mitt Romney
This is where I think Santorum has a huge advantage. He's really thought this through and has concrete proposals to offer.
I don't think anyone who looks at his background and proposals can doubt that he's serious about reviving the rust belt, and capable of doing it.
Aug '11
Re: Bad news for Mitt Romney
Stuart Creque:
Unless Romney is able and willing to create ads and other messaging to counter this ad, to show that some jobs lost at that mill were outweighed by other jobs created elsewhere, he's going to be vulnerable to this line of attack. He cannot afford to ignore or dismiss it.
The problem is, they shot first. Now Romney is forced into a position of reaction instead of the proaction that could have been on his own terms. Any response will come from a defensive position. Romney on defensive puts me in mind of the Bret Baier interview.
Apr '11
Re: Bad news for Mitt Romney
Bain purchased Worldwide Grinding Systems for $80m from ARMCO in 1993, merged it with GS Technologies, which then merged with Georgetown Industries Inc., to become the largest producer of steel wire rods in the U.S. ARMCO was selling because of large losses in the industry, and took a $205m loss in the sale; not the mark of a healthy subsidiary. GS installed a plant upgrade that produced an extra 100k tons of capacity, and improved costs and quality. Nonetheless, the plant remained unprofitable and suffered labor disputes in 1997.
In February 1999, Mitt Romney left Bain for the SLC Olympics, having had little to do with the GS project (he met the CEO of GS for lunch once, but there were two other Bain employees who dealt with this very small portion of Bain's holdings). In March 2000, Mark Essig takes over, which his predecessor blames for the company's downfall. In April 2001, the company closes the plant, at a time when steel companies across America are folding (hence the Bush Steel Tariffs).
Mitt did still have money in Bain (and still does today), but this wasn't his call.