Autism, Atheism and Libertarians
A new study shows that people who are autistic are more likely to be atheists than people who are not autistic. This is not exactly surprising:
People with 'mild' forms of autism are more likely to be atheists, according to a controversial new study - and more likely to shun organised religion in general.
The study, which looked at posts on autism forums, focused on people with high-functioning autism such as Asperger's.
The study, from University of Boston, speculates that common autistic spectrum behaviours such as 'a preference for logical beliefs' and a distrust of metaphor and figures of speech, could be responsible.
I was tested for autism when I was younger. I don't have it, but I do share quite a few traits with people on the autism spectrum, including greater comfort with logical statements. This means that many of my friends have Asperger's. (Of course, many of the people I know with autism are Lutheran, like me ...)
I'm also libertarian and have worked with quite a few libertarians over the years. I'd bet dollars to doughnuts that libertarians are more likely to be autistic as well. Fact is, sometimes I've wondered if it's easier to find a non-Aspy libertarian. Over at Discover magazine's Gene Expression's blog, Razib Khan speculates in that same direction.
I'm unsure what all this means, if anything. Have you noticed any of this overlap?
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Aug '10
Re: Autism, Atheism and Libertarians
Looks like the Daily Mail journalist has only a weak grasp of cognitive science. As Mr. Khan points out, the real issue isn't "preference for logical belief" but weak theory of mind. The "spandrel" model for the evolution of religion holds that it's a byproduct of our tendency to infer agency. This especially makes sense if you recognize that for most of human history religion meant pagans who sees a fairy or a sprite behind every tree and under every rock and hold these spirits responsible for gusts of winds, illnesses, crop failures, rain, etc, and that by historical standards it is unusual to believe in a god who delegates the day to day business of the universe to natural law.
Re: Autism, Atheism and Libertarians
One of the things I find interesting about people with high-functioning autism is how they can use their focus and memory for everyone's benefit. Here's a story about how a software firm hires people with autism to test software.
Mar '11
Re: Autism, Atheism and Libertarians
My daughter is 8 years old, and is on the autistic spectrum (nearer the mild scale). At least at this stage of her life, she is very religious and devoted to God. Obviously, this may change but it is a very large part of her life right now.
Re: Autism, Atheism and Libertarians
Yes, as I said, many of my friends with autism are in the church. I do think that people with autism or autistic tendencies tend to appreciate religion with more systematic theology than an emotive focus.
Apr '11
Re: Autism, Atheism and Libertarians
Tony Atwood, or someone of his type, has an applicable quote, I think. "When you've meet one person with Aspergers/Autism, you've meet one person with Aspergers/Autism." The point being, that they're very much individuals. I find it specious that they would conduct a study based on chat boards. My 13 year old son is an Aspie and has probably the most firmly held religious beliefs within our family.
I'm really not answering your question on point because I have such a hard time with how easily we throw around the idea of an ASD diagnosis and the magical thinking surrounding what the diagnosis means.
Jun '10
Re: Autism, Atheism and Libertarians
"The study authors, Catherine Caldwell-Harris and Patrick MacNamara studied discussions by 192 different posters on an autism website. They also looked at a survey of 61 people with high-functioning autism, and graphed against results from the Autism Spectrum Quotient (AQ) test."
A statistically insignificant and invalid sampling to make any knowledgeable inferences about high-functioning autistics. Not even worthy of consideration or discussion.
Re: Autism, Atheism and Libertarians
A statistically insignificant and invalid sampling to make any knowledgeable inferences about high-functioning autistics. Not even worthy of consideration or discussion. · Sep 21 at 7:45am
On what basis do you say that the samples were invalid or statistically insignificant? Here's the paper, with the confidence values stipulated.
Mar '11
Re: Autism, Atheism and Libertarians
If it is true that autistic people have a harder time with abstract concepts, then I can see how religion would not come easy.
Jun '10
Re: Autism, Atheism and Libertarians
Potential for subjective interpretation of a poster's comments that may or may not be taken out of context. 192 or 61 individuals is an unrepresentative statistical sampling for most studies.
From the paper:
These observations... suggest that these individuals’ beliefs may be influenced by their intellectual strengths (e.g. emphasis on logic and attraction to systematizing observables) and their social-emotional deficits (e.g. reduced automatic inferences about mental states and decreased orientation to social rewards).
Whether the individuals have social-emotional deficits is itself an inference based on general descriptions of the disorder but not on a particular evaluation of an individual. One is making this inference based on what someone posts on a discussion site. If that is a valid inference then one could infer that a great many Ricochet members also have social-emotional deficits (based on the tone of some comments) and is perhaps even the reason they have so much time to spend countless hours on the computer rather than engaging in face-to-face social activities.
Edited on Sep 21, 2011 at 8:34amMay '11
Re: Autism, Atheism and Libertarians
I am a Ricochet member with Aspergers and I do believe in "A God". The God I believe in is just not one that watches over me or anyone else for that matter. I am also very Jewish. I have not been in a shul since my Bar Mitzvah. I have a very strong sense of Right and Wrong.
I was not diagnosed with Autism Spectrum Disorder until I was 65 (I am 66 now). For me the diagnosis has been liberating.
I have a gift: I am an unbelievably good programmer and I have been programming since I got back from the Vietnam war (I am also a veteran) for 43 years now. On the other hand I cannot spell at all.
Perhaps spending my life creating one logical system after another, I have become very familiar with Goedels laws and fully understand that logic is very fallible. That is not the reason why I have no faith. In fact, I am envious of people who have faith in a just and loving God. It is just not a path that i am capable of following.
Re: Autism, Atheism and Libertarians
But that was from the introduction about why they wanted to do the study. If you read the study, the authors explain how they coded religious beliefs and thinking traits. They found that the comparison between groups on thinking traits was statistically significant for rationality, social discomfort and social disinterest. They also found that religious belief analysis was statistically significant in a variety of different comparisons.
I'm not saying that it's inconceivable to have gripes with their analysis but just don't want people to get the impression that this is the typical idiotic study that gets highlighted in the media or is "junk science." It hasn't been published in a peer reviewed journal but it was presented at the annual meeting of the Cognitive Science Society.
Jun '10
Re: Autism, Atheism and Libertarians
Mollie Hemingway, Ed.: ...
I'm not saying that it's inconceivable to have gripes with their analysis but just don't want people to get the impression that this is the typical idiotic study that gets highlighted in the media or is "junk science." It hasn't been published in a peer reviewed journal but it was presented at the annual meeting of the Cognitive Science Society. · Sep 21 at 8:34am
I won't dismiss the study. It is interesting but it would be even more interesting to see and read many of the comments from the HFAs and NTs that were evaluated, assessed and categorized. There may or may not have been a bias if a subject, through his/her comments self-identified themselves of a particular faith. There is no doubt a percentage of the clergy and some who would label themselves as members of a faith because they go through the motions of attending services because of their desire to preserve familial harmony but actually don't believe.
Jun '10
Re: Autism, Atheism and Libertarians
This example leads off the paper:
"On a discussion forum for Christian parents, a mother conveys her frustration because her 14 year-old high functioning autistic (HFA) son does not believe in God and refuses to write a paper for his confirmation class."
Maybe it's me, but I find this disturbing. Why is this 14-year old in a confirmation class to begin with if he doesn't believe in God? I think the mother may need some intervention because she seems to think that her beliefs trump the non-belief or applied logic and reasoning of her son, so much so that she and perhaps her husband are forcing their non-believing son to adopt a dishonest position.
Mar '11
Re: Autism, Atheism and Libertarians
I was never diagnosed with autism... I'm 42, they really didn't do that when I was a kid. But my son has been, and he seems to do a lot of things that I did as a kid, those weird autisitic habits and mannerisms. So it's pretty likely that I had (or have) it. And while I went through a brief liberal/agnostic period, I'm pretty right wing, and a lot of that is because I'm a social conservative, and a lot of that is because I'm a Bible believing guy. I do have a few heretical views from the mainstraim, but that's because I think the mainstream sometimes runs counter to what the Bible actually says. But I also have the sense that the idea of no God is just plain silly. I find the notion that reality is a perfectly ordered accident to be the ultimate scam. When I contrast accounts of creation... a creator, as opposed to "BANG!, and we're here!", the latter has always seemed more like a magic tale or a "fairy story" than any Biblical account of creation. Creation without a Creator seems.... illogical.
May '10
Re: Autism, Atheism and Libertarians
Like Brian, I'm not sure I accept the study's conclusion. But assuming it's correct...
There's a difference between becoming atheist and remaining atheist. This study suggests only a proclivity to "try" atheism, not to stick with it.
As an Aspie who was raised Catholic (an exceptionally ordered religion), became an atheist for a short time after high school and returned to Catholicism, I think the most likely cause of such a proclivity is not an attraction to logic (atheism is not more logical), nor a lack of sympathy for fellow human beings, but an extraordinary capacity for silencing our emotions.
In other words, we are more like to be willing to think unpopular and disturbing thoughts, because our rare brain formation causes us to experience emotions in a fundamentally different way (less impulsive, more deliberate).
Even though the entertainment industries encourage teenagers to flirt with atheism (and, more often, a vague "spirituality" which borders on the occult), the vast majority of Americans still believe in God, even if they don't worship on Sundays. So to deeply consider atheism without prejudice requires a willingness to buck culture. Aspies are foreigners in their own lands.
May '10
Re: Autism, Atheism and Libertarians
I'm a bit aspergery and a bit libertarian, but I'm also religious. (Lutheran, by coincidence.)
OTOH I find myself at odds with the way most of my fellow church members express their beliefs. I find myself routinely, silently criticizing the logical fallacies by which they arrive at conclusions I often agree with.
Apr '11
Re: Autism, Atheism and Libertarians
This comment reminds me of the story and video about the American family that transferred to Russia for the father's job and enrolled their children in a private Russian school.
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/18/magazine/my-familys-experiment-in-extreme-schooling.html?_r=2&ref=magazine&pagewanted=all
There were several scenes in the video of the American children in their Russian classrooms with looks upon their faces of frustration and confusion because they couldn't understand what was expected of them. As the mom of an Aspie, I've seen that look before.
Edited on Sep 21, 2011 at 10:11amNov '10
Re: Autism, Atheism and Libertarians
I don't know whether a weak theory of mind predisposes one to libertarianism.
However, I do get the strong impression that libertarians--and conservatives too--are anti-sentimentalists. Sure they empathize, but not to the point of foresaking reason.
However, it doesn't surprise me that a weak theory of mind predisposes one to atheism.
After all, theism is a startling claim: that there is one all-encompassing mind behind everything.
If you have a hard time imagining everyday minds, attached to physical bodies, you'll have an ever harder one imagining an infinitely large one, attached to the cosmos.
I am frankly surprised that so many people--whose powers of mind are otherwise undistinguished--manage it so easily.
Jul '10
Re: Autism, Atheism and Libertarians
You have had nothing. Autism is another "psychological creation" like ADD, ADHD, etc. [edited for Code of Conduct.]
I am always loathe to describe certain psychological descriptions as a predictor of a person's politics.
Edited on Sep 21, 2011 at 6:31pmJun '10
Re: Autism, Atheism and Libertarians
Michael Tee
You have had nothing. Autism is another "psychological creation" like ADD, ADHD, etc. [Edited for Code of Conduct.]
I am always loathe to describe certain psychological descriptions as a predictor of a person's politics. · Sep 21 at 3:59pm
As the father of a severely Autistic child, this is clearly one of the most ignorant and offensive statements I think I've ever seen on Ricochet. The CoC does not permit me to express what I'd really like to say and what should be said.
Edited on Sep 21, 2011 at 6:31pm